Aaron Slight: The Half You Don't Know

Aaron Slight is one of the best riders World Superbike ever produced, and one of the unluckiest.

Thirteen wins. Eighty-seven podiums. Three straight Suzuka 8-Hour victories. Four third-place championship finishes and two as runner-up, including 1998 when he lost the title to Carl Fogarty by just 5.5 points.

Then in February 2000, a brain aneurysm and emergency surgery in Sydney nearly ended his life. He came back to race the same season. Honda did not renew him at the end of the year. And that was the end of his racing career.

In this episode I sit down with the man from Masterton, Member of the New Zealand Order of Merit, to trace the whole story. The motocross kid who started at twelve. The friend whose death pushed him onto the road. The move to Australia with a TZR250 and not much else. The factory Kawasaki years and the Castrol Honda years against Carl Fogarty, Troy Corser, and John Kocinski. The Suzuka crash that nearly took his hand. The Simon Crafar connection. And the fight that had nothing to do with a stopwatch.

His book is called "You Don't Know the Half Of It." This is the other half.

This is the format the KiwiMoto72 Podcast is known for. From the early years to the present day, long-form. Made to be heard in one sitting or stretched across a few drives.

⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 The Journey of Aaron Slight
03:05 Reflections on a Racing Career
06:13 The Influence of Marcedon
08:48 The Impact of Loss and Transition
11:53 Early Racing Experiences
13:26 Challenges and Breakthroughs in Australia
21:07 The Road to Japan
26:42 Suzuka: Triumphs and Trials
33:08 The Journey Begins: Early Racing Experiences
37:28 Overcoming Adversity: The Hand Injury and Comeback
40:44 Transitioning to World Superbike: The Competitive Landscape
44:40 First Win in Europe: A Pivotal Moment
47:33 Training and Fitness: Evolving as a Racer
50:44 The Absence of Coaching: Self-Taught Skills
54:27 The Competitive Rivalries: Close Calls and Frustrations
01:04:48 Reflecting on a Racing Career
01:10:49 The Aneurysm and Its Impact
01:18:34 The Road to Recovery and Return to Racing
01:25:09 Transitioning from Racing to Life Beyond the Track
01:31:22 Lessons Learned and Advice for Young Riders

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Recorded 12 June 2026.

#AaronSlight #WSBK #KiwiMoto72

Transcript

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Speaker 2 (00:02.882)
87 World Superbike Podiums. Thirteen wins. Three Suzuka 8R victories in a row. And not one world title. This is the story of Aaron Slate.

Welcome to the Kiwimoto 72 Podcast. I'm Angus Norton. This is the show about riders, races, and the experts behind the sport. I love bringing these conversations to you all, and I always love talking to racers from my homeland of New Zealand. I grew up watching Aaron, Simon Crafer, and many other great writers from New Zealand in the late 80s and through the 90s. And my guest today is one of the writers that

New Zealand produced during that period, and frankly, one of the best super sport riders and super bike riders that we saw during that time.

He's also one of the unluckiest. He was raised in a small town of Marceton, New Zealand. He's a member of the New Zealand Order of Merit. And Aaron Slight is one of those guys that I just grew up loving to watch. He had an attitude about him. He had a can-do attitude about him. He had a I'll learn it on the job kind of attitude. And rose right to top.

Of the world superbike scene over those 10 years. Now he started his riding on the dirt like many of us did at 12 years old and switched the road racing after a fellow Kiwi racer died, inheriting the bikes that this racer had built his career on.

Speaker 2 (01:50.274)
He made his name in Australia, then he went to Europe and raced with the likes of Carl Foggerty and Troy Corsa and John Kaczynski and the rest of the 1990s grid. He finished second in the 1998 World Superbike Championship by just five and a half points. Two seasons later, he had a brain aneurysm, an emergency surgery in Sydney that nearly took his life. He came back to race that same year.

Honda unfortunately did not renew him until the end of that year, and in the year 2000, they didn't renew him at all. And that was the end of his racing career. I've always wondered what Aaron's been up to, because there's no doubt he's a world class rider. And it was a tough end to his career. Aaron's gone on to build a great life for himself, a career outside of motorcycling, and he's a good bloke.

He still rides on the street as well, which I think is pretty cool. So, in this episode, we're going to go from the earliest years in the Wire Rapper right through to today. Wire Rappa being a town in the North Island of New Zealand. We're going to talk about the bikes, the rivalries, the title that got away, and the fight that had nothing to do with a stopwatch. Aaron's book is actually called You Don't Know the Half of It, and I suppose you could say this podcast is the other half. So

Here's my conversation with Aaron Slight.

Speaker 2 (03:43.288)
So good day everyone. And like I said in the intro, we have a man from way, way down south with us today, Aaron Sleight. And Aaron, it's great to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining, mate.

Yeah, how's it going? And yeah, hi to everybody over there all all around the world. You know, it's it is a bit weird sometimes that you know the past gets dragged up and you know, even now it's you know, people are so interested in what what happened and that it's it's quite a quite a pat on the back actually, but yeah, it's a bit weird as well.

I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, you know, you were you were at your height of racing before the a thing called the internet was really popular and social media and all that stuff. And, you know, I read your book. I actually read it before I asked you on the podcast. I'd already I'd already read it. and you know, the you don't know the half of it is Aaron's book that he wrote twenty four years ago. And I suppose the real question, Aaron, is like what's the half? People still don't know because you were quite the character back in the day, God followed you.

yeah, well, don't know the half. I think it's because it all looks so glossy from the outside and it looks like everything's planned, it looks like you know, that we should all just follow this career path and get there in the end and and it's just not like that at all. and you know, I I know times have changed now, it's even different again, but back then there was a lot of grovelling around doing stuff that you really wouldn't want to do and and go through it again. so I just wanted to tell sort of that side of the story.

you know, there were some ugly bits that you just had to get through and you know, and it also was a great reflection. It was you know, after I'd finished with Honda and I was was really had a sour taste in my mouth and you know, I I had probably leaded that later on, hadn't really nowhere to go and and to reflect, you know, a s a kid from New Zealand or from Marcel in New Zealand, twenty thousand people to go over and do what I did. and and actually not feel that great about it at the time because you were just doing it.

Speaker 1 (05:41.314)
But when you had that chance to reflect, it's it was pretty cool, you know. all those things I did it was you know, pretty neat and and just to write it down was was a good way of an outlet and and felt like, well, I don't need to go and chase trying to find another ride, you know, because for a little while there I I looked in America for a ride and I looked here for a ride and yeah, you know, here, there and everywhere and thought, Well, I've been there done that, I just just need to get out. So that's where how it ended with getting out with a book.

Yeah, I I can only imagine, you know, how much you learnt on and off the book, off the bike. And you know, a place like Marstadin is a long way away from from the epicenter of many things, even today it is with the with the internet and all that. And you know, obviously you wrote it back in two thousand and one and you mentioned the Honda situation and you you've been through so much health-wise, but you know, you talked about Marcedon. in the book you write about Marstadin, like it shaped everything that came after and supposed

What did the wire rapper, for those who don't know New Zealand, what was it about the wire wrapper that what is it that that it gave you that the European kids I suppose never had? You know, as you think about that, was there a was there something there that sort of shaped you?

Well well this is before all the you know, all the flat track mini bikers from Spain and all that sort of thing was going on. So yeah, we all had motocross and motocross was natural terrain tracks in in every every farm's backyard. so every second weekend there would be a motocross somewhere would be a freshly marked out track, you know, no man made jumps or anything, just all fresh. so I'd ride twice a month on a motocross bike, and it was all just

Yeah, well that that was in the end actually, but you know, to get to that stage, it was just pure coincidence that I went down the avenue of getting into motorbikes 'cause none of my family were into motorcycling at all. My father rode a scooter to work for about a year and gave it up 'cause it had it getting wet and that was about the only motorcycling we had. so in the end I borrowed a a G T eighty MX Yamaha off my uncle which he actually won in a bet and it was just sitting in his garage and so I borrowed that and

Speaker 1 (07:47.06)
rode it in the the the scout den that you know the scouts you have you know jambries and all that sort of stuff is a s a scout paddock in behind my house so I rode it in there behind the house and yeah with strict instructions from my parents on what I could do and when I could ride it. You know, couldn't ride it when they went home and you know, I can remember now my dad sent me, the first week you can ride it around in first gear and the second week it'd be second gear and you know we'll work our way from there. By about the fourth day I put it into the fence in top gear and

into the eight wire fence and got jammed in the fence and couldn't get it out. So that's where it all of them. and then I snuck down the river with the bike and while I was down there, a friend which we might mention later on too, Pen Beck, was down there with his father. And they were down the river just I think they were running in a bike, you know, for the motorfoss meeting that weekend. And they said, Well why don't you bring your bike along to the track? So I got my dad to ring his dad and

That's where the the racing started by going along to these little flat tracks back then in a you know open paddock and I went along there with my open post helmet, which my dad used to wear on a scooter with a visor on it, some work boots and and my jeans and we're away.

No, you mentioned in your book, you know, I mean I saw there I'm sure there was a time when you realized that you were quicker than the kids around you, but y you mentioned your good mate Peter, and and how he died. and that was something that, you know, changed your direction. because from from what I remember, a mate of yours had handed you Ross, I think, handed you the the the R Z two fifty and the three fifty, that was Peter's bike, right?

Yeah, so Peter and I so that was their first meeting was down the river and and from there he was about eighty months older. so he was sort of leading the way and we were never racing against each other really 'cause, you know, in the junior championship was under you know, under and over twelve and then fifteen and and so he was sort of always in a different class. but then he took up road racing. And then road racing came about is because the Yamaha shop that he worked for and I I ended up working for after school.

Speaker 1 (09:50.068)
they had sidecars and and they used to go to all the the road race events and and they said to Peter at the time, Why don't you get a bike and come along to road racing? So Peter had only been doing it for about a year and he was, you know, on this R Z two fifty and he was he was sort of up the front already. and then we had the the grass track event where Peter was was killed with it just a a weird crash and you know somebody came around and and he was

laying there, he was I I was actually first on the scene, I was leading the race. So with foot with flat track you don't have any brakes, so you don't stop until you get round to the incident. And yeah, so that was the start of you know, a terrible thing. But then it sort of then there was it opened the doors of me in a another way. So I actually got Peter's it was actually his three fifty, Ross Gregory, the owner of the shop, said all, you know, in about about six months after as I started working for the shop myself.

He said, Why don't you take the three fifty for a ride and wouldn't we go and do a couple of vents on that? and at the time I was at doing an apprenticeship, motorcycle apprenticeship and I was yeah, I was going o over over to Wellington to do a course. You had a three month course and you then two three month sorry, two three week courses a year. And I thought, I'll take this R Z three fifty for a ride to to the Polytech, which is an hour and a half away and

My very first ride on this RZ three fifty, I'm going over the Rimesaka Hill, which is a classic hill where you know, where motorcycles road races lean to be road races. But I'm coming back home and I'm coming off the hill and going pla through this place called Featherston and the lights getting you know, it's starting to go dusk. and I'm going through this this town called Featherston and this old bugger's coming along and there's a a V in the road and he just veers off the road, didn't see me.

And I have a head on with this car. So my very first ride on the bot, I have a head on with a car. I ended up going over the over the whole car, landing on my feet, breaking my bones in my feet, and then whacking to my face and blacking out. So I wake up in the gutter and all I can remember saying was this kid was hanging over top of me. All I can remember saying was, whose fault was it? I don't want to be my fault. but yeah, the guy went across the road, yeah, and cleaned me out.

Speaker 1 (12:09.384)
so that was Peter's RZ three fifty was done. when he even got to race it. from there Ross was very resourceful. so it was there, you know, let's buy a second hand bike and let's put this and that and da da da. So we bought a two fifty and put the three fifty engine in and yeah, it just all took off from there.

Wow. So inheriting your a a good mate's bike to start your road career and then sort of zigzagging along the way a little bit to get into the three fifty. And it's funny, a lot of Kimis I know that have gotten to motorsport and done well started out also as apprentices in in in motorcycle shops or or automotive shops. you Paul and there's another one who I've had on the podcast. You probably know Paul. Mike Webb, yeah, Simon Crafar, they all they all did it. That's that's interesting. That's that's really interesting. And so

Would you can you see yourself pretty technical with bikes back then? Like you could or

We'll probably touch on this a bit later on as well, but yeah, I think the z the zigger eight hour is because I have a bit of a mechanical sympathy. so I think that's maybe that comes into that as well. I won you know, won the six hour here twice. Yeah, all the longer races I did very well, so maybe you know, maybe that type of thing. Yeah, I was never hard on gearboxes or things because I understand how it works. you know, it does my head in head in today when I hear some of these young kids and and and motorbikes and cars and just blaming the equipment when it's half the time it's the way they use it.

yeah, we're gonna have a good chat about that. That's gonna be interesting. But I suppose, you know, leading up to all that success, you had these real grinder years, right? the two fifty production title. the the I remember reading the Castro six hour wins, and then the move to Australia, which was on the was it the Yamaha T C R two fifty? Yeah. I suppose Yeah, what what kept you sort of going through the years? y you know, nobody outside New Zealand was kinda

Speaker 2 (14:01.698)
kind watching at the time, right? So you were sort of you you c must have had something in your in your head there that this is what you wanted to do. Or what was it that kind of kept you going?

I I never ever I never had a a hero that I looked up to or anybody that I wanted to be or anything like that. I was just it was just about doing things well and and and what's the next challenge really and and but the the move to Australia it was yeah, way back then when there was no internet and all that sort of stuff, I'd buy the Australian motorcycle news. and there was a young guy up in Kamak called Rob Doran over there and and he was riding by himself and I saw I'd

I write a fax to this guy saying, Why don't you join in the in the six hour over in New Zealand? We'll pay for your fear and and look after you while you're here and you know, we'll cost you nothing. So Rob Doran came over, joined us, we won the six hour. he said, Well, why don't you come back to Australia and you know, come and live with flat with me and and his his wife or his girlfriend at time and another mechanic called Trevor Love, he was a Kiwi as well, and flat with us and and see what you know you can get into and

So, you know, I I sold my debts in one eighty B and got got six thousand dollars for that and I arrived in in Sydney and knocked on a few people's doors and nobody was interested. So I took the cash from that and bought a an RZ two fifty over there to race a two fifty class. and you know, flatting with the guys over there, I can the the flat I had I couldn't I couldn't have my mattress my the room I had, I couldn't have the my my mattress fully open.

and my suitcase at the same time it was that big. so it was very tiny and yeah I I bought this bike and bought the bike and yeah immediately got arrested from riding around on an unregistered motorbike because you know of course I wasn't gonna register the bike, I didn't want to race it. so I was riding on this bike, I I rode out to Amory Park a racetrack there just to watch people racing. I was riding home, passed on the WR lines, got pulled up and of course my

Speaker 1 (16:04.012)
My number plate was registered to a KR two fifty, not a R Z two fifty, 'cause it wasn't for the bike. so then the they thought I'd pinch the bike. So then I had it was taken to the local police station and had to appear in court later on to say that, you know, it wasn't registered, it was my bike, and how could I prove it? And yeah, so that was a bit of a drama just running the bike in. and I managed only to do four races that year, that's all it was. But the the very last race we did, we robbed

was still riding s 750 and went to a three hour in a surface paradise. so it was a three hour race for the seven fifty, so solo race, and they had support race, which is the two fifties. And in the support race, yeah, and in this I'd I'd gone there and and you know, I was working on my bike with a toolkit that came with, you know, the the little ring and spanner and stuff and and using borrowing Rob's tools. And the first race the rear tile was getting a bit knacked by the four fourth race when he had done on it.

so I bought a new tyre, a a Pirelli silver dot as they were called in those days, and and I finished second to this guy called Michael Dewan. at and he he was just starting out as well. So second to him and then the next race I had the new silver dot on and and second again. He was running an RZ five hundred and a two fifty. So that was the first encounter I'd had with with Mick back then at Sir Surface Paradise and that was by year done, done four race bettings, sold the R Z back to the shop that I

bought it from and moved back to New Zealand and said to my my dad, So what now? Yeah, that that didn't I didn't achieve anything with that. no I'm not going anywhere, all pissed off. But then the T Z R two fifty came out and you know the T Z R was a big step up from the other from the other bike and I got on that bike and came home. I think I won every race that year in New Zealand and and the except for the

The two hours we talked about for a two hour I got sick into Buster Saunders. I don't know if you even knew Buster Saunders. Basta

Speaker 2 (18:00.792)
Remember, I'd never met him, but yes. Yeah.

speaking in old terms, Buster was a dwarf. so Buster it's a great guy and he he ride like a maniac and he beat me in the only race that year at the two hour. I'm sure his bike was a bit hotter than mine, but anyway, that's another story. but yeah, that so and Buster got his name because he used to ride GPZ nine hundreds and he used to bust a gearbox every now and then. So they called him Buster.

but yeah, he was a great guy, but that T Z R sort of set my career and then at the end of the year I'd won every race except for that one and I said to my my dad, so what do I do? And he said, Well, you know, what we sh what you should do this time is instead of buying a bike, why don't you just send your bike over and get a canade for the you we're only talking production bike still. Send it over and then you can stay in New Zealand and you can work. So I didn't realise that, you know, I yeah, fly back and forward and so I begs begged and borrowed over there and somebody would take my bike from

race meeting to race meeting and I'd fly in and had a friend who lived in Aubrey and he had an old HQ Minaro and he put his trailer on the back and he'd take it to the race meeting for me and and then suddenly the the one of the first races I get to is because in those days remember they had that Yamaha Cup and the final would be in in Spain. and I turn up at the first round and and go pretty well and immediately Yamaha come to me and say, Well, you're not an Australian you won't be winning the trip. And so

Already someone had started to notice me. So I I I rode that bike over there really hard and really well. And I only think from about the second round on people started to notice. So then Bob Brown Ducaddy, which Bob Brown started Kevin McGee's career. so Bob Brown came over and said, Why don't you ride my my six hundred six hundred Pinter, which was you know, an eight twenty or whatever it was, in and selected rounds of the Swan series and

Speaker 1 (19:53.794)
So that started to happen and then of course Rob you know the famous Robert Holden from New Zealand, he was he was riding for Actions Zeke at the time and he said, Well, why don't you ride with me in the six hour? And so we rode in the six hour, we won seven fifty class and just started things started to happen and and with Bob Brown we had the Swan series at the end of the year 'cause it's you know, back in those days the the big Swan series, you know Rob McInnay and and people in Wayne Gardner would bring back their Grand Prix bites from

from Europe and would have the Swan series and and and these years it it was starting to get noticed again by the Japanese and so I rode the Swan series on the on the Ducati. Probably didn't have didn't go that well because that was one of those years or that year actually was it I think Mal Campbell had an N R seven fifty. So the the N R's were out and him and s s his brother in law a scholar, Ascolia, they wrote N Rs against

Dowson and McGee on F Z thousands. So that the bikes were, you know, getting faster and faster and but I managed to noti you know, a few people noticed and things were happening and and then in that year also Mick Dewan had gone to ride in Japan for a a crowd called Super Angel. So Mick Mick was making moves in front of me, which was leaving it a bit of a bow wave for me to just jump into. And so

this little hole was forming for me and then so in eighty eight, after doing the year with the T ZR in Australia, I came home and Yamaha Australia rang me and said, Well would you like to go to Japan? 'cause Mick will be coming back to ride for us in Australia. but the super angel team needs a rider. And of course yeah, I jumped at that. And that's what's what stamp started the the Japan off. Yeah.

Seems a lot of you ended up in Japan at some point too. that seems to be a like a common theme and what you know, you are obviously winning in Australia. Japan was a bit of a mixed bag, right? In terms of your performance there. Was it what was it that that taught you? Was there something that taught you about Japan that you you know, you you realised that, you know, Australia and New Zealand were smaller fry and you it was kind of a bigger fry to go after or?

Speaker 1 (22:05.266)
no, it was a it was a it was a it was a time and place really. yeah Mick Dillon went to Japan and the year before and he opened the doors, but what had happened then was that this this shop had opened and they were one of the biggest Yamaha dealers in Tokyo and he wanted to get into racing, so Yamaha Japan supported him. So Mick would go up to Japan and ride a super angel coloured bike but out of the factory stable.

so the next year they thought, Well, we're gonna get into this ourselves and we're gonna run our own tent and they were a bike shop with with no mechanics and no nothing, you know. they bought a went and bought a truck and yeah, in the back of the truck there was two motorbikes and and a a toolboxes, you know, which be a DeWalt toolbox, you know, something that you you'd work did a bit a bit of carpentry with. and they decided to go away from Yamaha and buy the motor. so the motor with infection and stuff they didn't know anything about.

and it was just drama after drama, right? But in saying that, I I was in Japan last week and I went back to this super angel shop. It's still there since nineteen eighty eight I don't think it's been painted. Moranaga the the boss is still there. you know, it was so it was quite a trip down memory lane and I said to my wife, you know, it was really quite emotional because when I went there in nineteen eighty eight, there was no English, no English signs.

they they picked me up from the airport and they dumped me in a in a hotel room and used to it was it was really bizarre. I mean, people nowadays wouldn't be able to under you know, what what people were like. Like I get picked up in the morning at eight o'clock on their way to the bike shop and no English just picked up, taken the bike shop and I'd sit in the showroom all day and it was like I was on show. It was like the round eye, you know, like, you know, this is the high successful successful motorbike shop is I'd

got a European rider and we're doing this racing and it's like, but what do I do? so yeah about three weeks I sat in this sat in this shop drinking coffee and then I got you know a few weeks into it and I suddenly worked out, well if I tell them I'm going training yet no bother to pick me up. I only go in a couple of days a week and but yeah even the workshop is smaller than my bedroom. I couldn't even go in and help you know, because I was a mechanic I could have gone and helped prepare the motorbox. so drama after drama, you know, with the eighty hour race, you know,

Speaker 1 (24:27.906)
things like the they wouldn't have any fuel filters on the tank, so the injection would get full of fiberglass and then the bike wouldn't run and it just was drama after drama and and but yeah I ha have a lot of lot to be thankful for. I I had my first and only Grand Prix was with Superanger. I rode a two hundred fifty and the Japanese Grand Prix. then I had my first super bite race for them, my first eight hour with them. I was really, really lucky that the the last round of the year

Well, not in the last the last soup bite round. was the World Superbytes came to Sugo. so we got there and I I actually kicked the mechanics out of the shed and said, just let me fiddle with all the stuff here 'cause we just kept having this stupid you know, fiberglass shit in the tank and all this let me go through the whole bike by myself, just and so we ended up having a good result and I ended up sixth in one of the races. pretty mu only

only real result to talk about for the year, but six and one of the Subote races, which was beating Rob Phyllis on on a Kawasaki. So that got the attraction of Kawasaki Australia for they were all really thinking about going to the World Championship and who could fill in Rob's position in Australia. So you know all the the hard work that Japan was in eighty eight, you know, it still did at the very end open the doors to getting you know, a really good ride in Australia.

and people don't realise, you know, the route to Europe through Australia either th seems like just another national championship. but yeah, in Australia they the we all had factory bikes. the association with Japan was very, very close. And I think that was set out in the early days from the Doyle family where Neville Doyle went to Europe and he went with this is now in the K the two fifties back then Hanson. so he went to Europe with Hanson.

and came back from Europe and always had a really close association. So they always had really good equipment from Japan. So because they had good equipment then there there was factory Yamahas to compete with them. And because they had then then there was factory R C thirties. Suzuki were the only ones that weren't really in the factory game. But you know, we had really good bikes back then. and that connection paid dividends for Rob Phyllis and Peter Dole to go off to the World Championship and do

Speaker 1 (26:50.786)
That why I was doing the Australian Championship.

Yeah, you mentioned Rob a few times and I I I I I remember I'm I remember Rob and I'm before we get to him 'cause I'm curious what you learnt from him, but you've you're pretty humble about Suzuka. You're you are one of the winningest brightest at Suzuka, right? In terms of your your history. if I'm if I've got it right. you've got one of the records for the most for the some of the best results in Suzuka. but am I am I yeah.

Well, I'm I'm the only guy to won three years in a row with another with a with another teammate. So different teammates every year. There have been a couple of others won it more than three years now, but they've won it in the three rider era. So in my era there's only two riders. So yeah, some teams now do it with three riders. So you have three years in a row with three different teammates. and yeah. And like when I went to Suzuka the first time with Super Angel, I couldn't

I couldn't work it out like the track is so long and so hard to to figure out. And when the bike's not running right and you're in the pit a hole a lot of times you you just get lost. And I can remember saying to the guys, you know, I looked at it at the the track map and it's it's a figure eight and I'm going, But I don't even don't even know where I go under and over myself. How am I getting yeah? It just it's just such a big track and you go towards the hip and you concentrate on the hair pin, you've got your head down, you're actually going under the bridge.

Then the back straight you're going across the bridge and you don't even realise you've done it. So it's such a big long circuit and so so demanding and yeah, it it takes a lot to learn and and to to master that because the Japanese the Japanese riders are so fast in Japan. They just know where they're going. They've only got you know, three real good tracks. they have a lot of little ones as well, but they they just know every bump and and you know, puddle in the in the tracks and just go extremely well. So to beat them at home is pretty pretty tough.

Speaker 1 (28:42.598)
And when you go to ride in the eight hour as well, you go there on a superbike. Well, first year it was a F one bike, but after that you go on a superbike and they're all tuned to so they'll go the hour mark because you don't want to do an extra pit stop. So they're all as gutless as hell and you and you get there and you just say, you know, give me some horsepower and da da da and that's not the way to go to win the race you've got to make the hour mark and and stuff like that, which I get because I've got that sort of mechanical you know, sympathy and and know what we're trying to achieve with the long run.

and I had some great teammates too. Yeah, the first first year the first year I won was ninety-three and that was the last year for TDF one rules. So Kawasaki never won it before. so and we won it the last year of TDF one. So that was quite good for them because they they tried really, really hard. There's a few circumstances to it and a stoppages of the race, but yeah, we still still did win it, and that was Scott and myself. And looking back back now, you see on Instagram a couple of the shots of the bike and

Man, that's a big old beast bike. It's quite huge. and

Which is up here by the way, we'll be when we produce it, I'll put a bunch of the picks. You sent me bunch of great picks. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us more about that one.

And you know, with that year that the year before nineteen ninety two, Rob and I actually chose to ride ride the superbike when it was T D F one rule because we said we didn't want run wouldn't didn't want to ride that big that big thing around there for for eight hours. But so we ended up winning it that year with Scott, which was awesome. And then you know the ninety four year I I changed to Honda and I beat Scott by I think it it's zero point zero zero three of a second to the wind in nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 1 (30:22.898)
And that race was was was quite cool, was was it's good 'cause I came out on top, of course. But I can remember it was me and Doug and it was Scott and Terry Rymer. So Scott and I were the fastest out of the peering and but what we did the last hour that with Doug got got out and Doug was to do his hour. but if his if he did his hour it would mean he'd come in at he'd we'd only have forty minutes to run.

or thirty five minutes to run. So we pulled Doug in early, so I jumped in to surprise the the other team. and I got on the bike to do the full hour right at the end. and I can remember that you know Kawasaki clicked onto this and two days later they pulled Scott and he jumped on the bike. And as I was coming down the the front straight I could see Scott pulling out and because you know we're teammates we I knew him pretty well. So I gave him the big bird, you know, as I went past. And and I just after I did it I

What the hell I do that for? I just he he was just on me. Like I thought I going past him down the clip, he would have a you know, two laps to warm up the tires and I'd be gone. But he followed me the whole time and it and like I just I think I put the goat up on him and he was just yeah, so pissed that I gave him the bird and we was on it for the last hour. And he only actually got past you once and it was into the last chicane and and I don't know, I I've my even though I'm wearing glasses now, my eyesight was is

My long vision is so good that I think he got past me in the dark and then didn't know where to go. But not not literally, but you know, he'd been following me for so long. and then he never got past me again. so yeah, so we we won it by you know zero point zero zero three of a second. the next year I I rode with Taddy O'Carter, and yeah, he's a factory Honda Polit for five hundreds and two fifties and you know, he was a specialist at all this stuff.

and the great thing about Taddy was you know, when we set set up a bike for the for Suzuka, he'd done so many laps there and I'd come in and we we want to do this, we want to do that and I'd I'd say to Taddy, Yeah, you know, can we do this? Yeah, 'cause it always makes sure your your teammate can ask you him. And Taddy would just say to me, Any okay, any okay, can we move this? Any okay? He was just such a cruiser, such a cruiser, and just got on the bike, and then we won that one, and that wasn't that close. and then the fourth year,

Speaker 1 (32:43.554)
So it was weird. I think we qualified third every year. And then the fourth year, Taddy qualified on pole. And he handed me the bike. I think I think we were even leading or second after the first hour. And I got out there and on my second lap I was panicking. I wasn't getting going fast enough and high sided it coming out of the the S's and broke my foot. So we had a pretty good chance to win at the fourth year as well if I had a just kept my cool butt.

came out into the first left and then high sided and and yeah broke a few bones in my foot. So that was that was the end of our run. and yeah, but it was such a it was a yeah, they were good good times.

They were pretty nasty too back in those days. So I had Matt Oxley on the podcast last year. You probably know Matt. You know, he's a pretty pretty been around a long time and he raced in a few TTs and I actually won an Isle of Man one year and I know you raced at Suzuka. But I know you also one of those races and you caught your hand under a cover one one of the Kawasaki's, right? pretty nasty accident.

Yeah, so that was back in that was back in ninety nine. Yeah. So I was I was now yeah, I'd done a year eighty nine with Kawasaki and and Kawasaki were getting into everything and they were using me for a lot for testing, which was great. I was riding their F one bike, their super bike, and I was riding a F three bike, which was cool, and I was and I was developing their Grand Prix two fifty bike as well. So I was spending a lot of time in Japan and and getting getting a lot of opportunity and

The race I crashed in was the week leading up to the they call it the the Zazuka two hundred kilometer race. And the two hundred kilometer race is a single rider race about a month before the eight hour. So it's just to prepare you for the eight hour and prepare the bikes. and I a valuable lesson was learned after that. But yeah, I came out of the last corner, like it is yeah, the last run of the day, just go and just try this one more thing, one more thing. And I come out of the heap and and as I come out of the heap and I lost the front wheel and as I turn in

Speaker 1 (34:41.28)
I lose the front and my hand gets caught between caught between and silly me holding on between the handerbar and the chassis and just where at the back of my hand is I don't know if you can see that that's actually a graft or rat that's a graft that's come from under here. The light's not so good there, but that's the graft site. it took a bone from here to make a new finger. so yeah, so I got caught on epic bike and for me, you know

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:10.326)
Yeah, as young as I was back then I I just thought it was a a a bad laceration and it'll heal over in a few weeks' time will be away again. but as I arrived back in New Zealand I they'd realised that I'd only my I've worn out all my tendons, so my fingers never work. Yeah, yeah. So as as it stands now, this tendon comes down and separates and and operates two fingers at at once. So those two go together. these two are the same tendon, so they go down together as well. So it should have

It should have been the end and sh just those go those you know, I can't operate them independently. the the down ones will pull but the up ones won't go because there's only two. so when I found out all information and found out what was going on, that was probably the end of my career. you know, it was just we didn't think that but that's all I all all I knew at the time. So yeah, came back to New Zealand, was operated on here in in the Hutt Hospital in New Zealand and operated on by a burn specialist.

but this burn specialist was a car racer. So we had a bit in common and and he did his his his best and the first operation went okay and in New Zealand at the time it's like, well you're fixed now and you know you can go back to doing your normal job and my normal job was racing motorbikes but they didn't care that back then my hand wouldn't actually work because when they did the grafting it just stuck to all the all attendance. So I I talked the the surgeon to give me a second operation

with the government pain. and so we got the the hand to work properly. you know, to to close up properly. And but before that I was I was doing physio for three months and what they were trying to do is break down the scar tissue so I could get my hand to work. And I was actually on nitrous oxide for pain relief while she would pour my hands around and for three months we put up with that and then the doctor said, Well you're not getting anywhere, that's not doing that. So we cut in and took the

whole sort of top of and did a you know, made some carpal tunnels as they do to make the things slide up down. And he says as soon as you wake up, there might be bit of blood and guts going on with the moving your hand, but you need to be moving your hand from time you wake up to get those tracks moving and stuff. And because what I couldn't do in the original operation is they were attaching tendons to tendons and wouldn't they do is they do a like like a blanket stitch to get the tendons to join.

Speaker 1 (37:34.83)
But if you if you move your fingers, you just break the tendon. So I had to be in a special traction so that I could slide the tendon without actually using the muscle. But when I did that, it all scarred your heel heeled over and I couldn't move my hand. So yeah, lucky enough to get the next operation and I I this this is the first year I signed a two year contract. So very, very lucky that I got back to do one race in Australia. It was called the Arrow race.

This this race had continued on but it was at Easton Creek where they'd never been to you know, Easton Creek was a new track. So I went to Easton Creek and and finished on the podium. my hand wasn't working so well, but that proved that I could come back and ride the next year, which is gonna be ninety ninety one.

You won the championship the next year, right? I mean that's pretty cool. I noticed you've you seem to become a bit of an expert in all things medical and and and and surgery over the years, which we're gonna get into. Like you speak about it pretty eloquently, like the details. and but you mate, you came back and won the championship. in how much were the hand that healed when you you know how you know, when you hit when you won that, you know, and how much I suppose was something else hardening mentally or something.

There must have been something else hardening inside you other than your hand fixing and all that. Like did you mentally were you mentally tougher? were you physically fitter? Like what how did you bounce back to win the championship after such a short time?

I think I worked out that I was actually good at it. You know, I before I was just turning up and riding as fast as I could. now I d I think, you know, like I said before, I think I realised, you know, this was the last the last session of the day and all that sort of stuff and I would just do anything anybody would ask me to do. But now I was starting to realise that there is you know, you can't just get on the bike and ride flat out all the time. You've got to you've gotta give some people some feedback and say, No, I've I've done enough today, you know, I you know, I'm done, I'm toast. I think I started to trust that

Speaker 1 (39:29.612)
you know, I was fast, where before I was just trying to please everybody. so, you know, and if I could you know, I had six months of sitting around, if I could only get back to where I was, I think I can make this work, you know, because I was almost at the top of my game. the new bike was coming out, the new Kawasaki was gonna be unreal. Rob had ridden it and and was going really quick on it. so you know, once again, timing's everything. I think the new bike, I got over the

my hand thing and and sorted out that I I was you know, I could be I could ride smart. I didn't have to ride flat out all the time. you know, not every lap had to be world record. I could actually go and do some different things and and give an opinion. And in that year too, I won every race in the Pan Pacific Championship as well. So the Pan Pacific was we raced in Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan and New Zealand. so won all those races as well and the and the the Australian Championship. so

I saw you race the poke cow.

no, I think it's I think the was Manfield. Yeah, Manfield yeah. 'cause yeah, and I can remember Darrell Beattie coming over for that as well and a few Australians. yeah, so that and and to win that and the Australian championship and we rode the eight hour as well. There's a lot going on and and I yeah, I was able to ride other bikes in Japan, so yeah, doing pretty good for the Japanese as well. So that was pretty cool.

And then you got your big then you got your big World Superbike you know that that big opportunity around ninety ninety two, right, with Factory Kawasaki. And I'm I'm just wondering, before we get into your first win, 'cause there's a lot there, but a lot of the younger listeners, a lot of the younger listeners probably don't realise that these guys are racing freaking five reading two strokes back then that were just like ridiculous fighters before the

Speaker 2 (41:19.426)
The four truck era, but also World Superbike at the time was much bigger than Motor G P right. It was the thing, it was the championship to be in. GP Moto G P was not quite what it is today. Am I right? From memory it was but

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but the s story before that too is is that yeah, Grand Prix is still cons was still considered the the the elite. But the Grand Prix bike had stopped the development five years before that. Yeah, it's just a dirty old two stroke and you can't do much more with it than what they're doing and you know, they they weren't they weren't developing them that much and was sort of the old thing, the old saying with what wins on Sunday sells on on Monday with a superbike it had to be a production bike base.

So it was really good for the brand. you know, go forward a few more years than that in nineteen ninety seven, ninety eight, had Brands Hatch. We were the biggest outdoor event to happen in in the UK that year. A hundred and twenty nine thousand people showed up, you know, on the on the one day at Brands Hatch. You know, that's how big it was. you know, F one you'd have forty thousand people turn up. so it was, you know, bigger than Ben Hur back then and you know, e big bigger than any soccer game or

So it was pretty pretty big. But but just a little bit before the ninety two season was you know, I when we're talking about Grand Prix, I s we still hold Grand Prix at you know, at that high level and I was trying to get on a Grand Prix bike. so while I was negotiating with you know, I'd done my two year stint with Kawasaki, so I'd done ninety and ninety one and I was trying to get to Europe with Kawasaki Superbike in ninety two and had a contract to do that with Rob Phyllis as my partner. But Suzuki

Lucky Strike Suzuki offered me a contract. so I'm I'm thinking, you know, I want to be on a Grand Prix ball. you know, it's still so I'm negotiating with them and back and forth, back and forth. and because why I wanted to touch on this is just you don't know the other you know, the full story is you know, because I was negotiating then my I wasn't signing with Kawasaki, so they started stripping races out of my championship to sort of say you need to sign today, da da da. So

Speaker 1 (43:29.196)
It ended up that Gary Taller was really only stringing me along so that he had a couple of you know things going and he signed Didier DeRigas to ride the the bike next to next to Schwamps and Didier must have been bringing some I think some tobacco money from Belgium because he was due for retirement anyway. and so I decided to call it quits, give me a letter of intent or you know, I'm signing with Kayozaki. So letter of intent and comes through.

So I turned around to Simon Kawasaki and because I'd mucked them around, they said that I couldn't do the two Italian rounds. why and at the end of the day I think it's just a bit of sour grapes because when those two races are on, I was sitting in New Zealand and my mechanics and my motorbikes were at the racetrack. So that was just you know, don't mess with us, this is what what's happening. So it's not like today where everybody's yeah, and got they're on the riders back and we're

But a manager.

You know, we're gonna we're gonna see your career through this path and we're gonna get you here. That was dog eat dog. And you know, because I didn't play ball, you know, I had to the next year had to sacrifice two races. so yeah, so that was a bit of a a bit of a learning curve and a bit of a bugger and you know, and and then we went off to in ninety two to Europe and yes, we've done a couple of years, but we're still still got no money, still, you know, y you're not you're not buying

motorhomes and buying cars and things in Europe. It's you're still, you know, sleeping in hotels and and and counting on that team van to get to the track. so it's it's still pretty tough to do.

Speaker 2 (45:01.782)
Yeah, but sure. I'll be so much here. I mean and then you s and then you you switched to Cash Or Honda ninety four, right? Yeah. And and and and you you had a bit of a I mean, geez, you got to ride the R C forty five, I mean. yeah.

Well we need we need to just go back to ninety two just a little bit 'cause we did you did touch on my first race in Europe was my first r was subte win and my first yeah, first win in Europe. So so that was pretty cool. yeah, so there was actually Albacete, Albacetti in in Spain. So we went to we went and 'cause I I got to Europe too. I I was got there on a bit of a sad note as well. I went I went to Daytona

and rode the the G P bike, the two fifty G P bike. Corrington was managing the team. they got Corkin' manage the team at at Daytona and it was me and I'm not sh I forget the guy's name, but the South African rider was the other two fifty rider. So it's in they knew, you know, going to be their Grand Prix bike. It was a V twin upside down V twin. It was very special but it was gutless and

You know, I can remember struggling through that weekend and getting high sighted and because of the cold seizing and seizing this bike so many times and landing on my head and and really feeling pretty down the mouth about the whole thing and having Cork Bellington actually not be very supportive either, going, Well, you know, you need to be up higher on the grid than this and da da da da and I'm going on the bike shit and I'm the only one on Michelin tires and Michelin, you know, haven't come to Daytona and the tires are like concrete. so I was feeling pretty bad when I arrived in Europe

And we do a week's testing at the at the Spanish track and I feel pretty good about the whole thing then and then yeah, come out and win the first race. so first race in ninety two I'm I'm leading the world championship with a race win. so that was pretty cool and

Speaker 2 (46:53.654)
Thanks for catching me up on that. No, thanks for catching me up on that 'cause I missed that piece. Yeah.

Yeah, so that that was a pretty pivotal thing 'cause once again, you know, the people can make you feel so bad and you know, how do you pull yourself out of that stuff and you know, landing on your head twice, you know, if in the bike season and you're just having a bad week and things aren't going well and but you're riding a a bike you probably shouldn't be riding anyway and you know, getting you know, once you're on that big bike thing you you should probably stay on them, but you know, jumping on a two fifty and yeah, so there's lots of stuff happening there and

that was pretty tricky and but you know, then I'm leaving the championship but then the very next race, I get brought back to earth by a big high side going into turn two and I have a damp patch in the track and and end up roll rolling out of the race and yeah, finishing nowhere.

So I mean and you guys, you know, looking at your suits behind you, yeah, there was no earbags back then. You had maybe a chest protector and a back protector and a hope and a prayer and it's I mean I mean just just just I mean, those those injuries, they were they were they were proper. I mean, what what was the training like back then? was it, you know, were you guys on the booze after races and out partying or was it like were you guys, you know, training like you know, like athletes like they do today? It was just a bit of a different thing in terms of just the fitness for

For all that you went through for the form and the writing and

Speaker 1 (48:11.36)
I think Mick do I knew Mick quite well. I think Mick and I like we started a different regime, I think. He he started probably a bit earlier than I but I mean I was always yeah, 'cause the problem is when you're a kid you're all naturally fit. You can deal with it. Yeah, it's it's pretty easy really. But people don't really get that after twenty minutes there's becomes a forty minute race, becomes a forty five minute race that you do go off the boil. So, I got into my fitness quite early. but we used always, you know, in the early days always enjoyed a Sunday night for sure. There was

It was different in the out you know, like that sort of thing all all always went on and that was great. but I think I was a an early adapter of of that and when I joined the Honda team and when

Yeah, come in and say hi.

Yeah. So when I when I joined the Honda team and when when the Ducati had so much advantage, that was when I started to think, Well, you know, I've got to do something else here. Yeah. to make up for well for what we're not got. I've I've got to get on on the grid and I've got to look down the grid and I've got to be the fittest person because I've got to try harder than anybody else. so yeah, that's when I I really got into my cycling and and and stuff like that and

Yeah, s through and through those years leading to ninety eight, I I don't think there was anybody fitter on the grid. and yeah, really tried hard. and that but the the the early on stuff, you know, I used to run and used to do bits and pieces, but didn't put everything into it. But in the end when I'd I'd go I'd come back from Europe every year and I'd I'd you know, early adapter of anything that can help, you know. I just I so I was probably the first or one of the first people to see a sports psychologist and

Speaker 1 (49:57.486)
Yeah, let's just talk through what what's going on and you know and one of the things is yeah that I started to realise is this is what you've chosen. If you if you want to write a fucking Ducaddy, sign for Ducetty, you know. if you think they're so good. otherwise you've got to get on with it. You've got to you know, and I s I started the second half of my Honda career I started calling them calling them red bikes because I just I couldn't associate the name with Ducetty because it would just give me a false sense of that it it's just

had a a brick roll up for me, you how was I gonna beat a Ducaddy? I just called the other red bikes because it was it was just so hard to get your head around, especially every weekend when you you know five laps to go, there would be a red bike that would crawl past you with a bit of tires and win the race. so yeah, it it was all those sort of things. So I was early adapted to everything. So I'd go home and go, well I need to be fitter, I need to do this, I need to do that. you know, and even a couple of times there I did look at signing for Ducaddy and but you know, once you make your choice

You to epice would you choose in your mind?

Yeah, but this is this is this is cool. Now it was was there such a thing as coaching back in the day? Like, you know, like I'm an old fat guy that does a bit of racing in the US and track days and I've done a shit ton of coaching with, you know, all sorts of different schools and coaches and like as a pro back then, like was it was coaching a thing? Were you ever coached or was it just all self taught?

All self taught. Yeah, no coaching. Coaching didn't start for along the moment. I often thought that at the end of my career, yeah, I could be a you know, like they're doing now, they that the guys have spotters on the track, you know, telling what's going on. We had nobody was giving you any advice. We're you know, coming out of this corner like that or like this or you should try it was none of that and you know, telemetry was just starting. so we had you know, telemetry you had about five channels that were any good, so you'd have throttle opening, you know

Speaker 1 (51:48.224)
engine speed, bike speed, front and rear suspension, and that's about it. So you could you could start working with that. but no actual coaching, no one knowing more than what you did and you know, you'd look across at the Japanese and the Japanese had a funny way where they would ride the bike and they would have the index finger wouldn't come off to brake. They'd brake with their necks fingers. So you would you know you start thinking, so are they opening the throttle before I am like that and having them

You know, but yeah, now when now we're they were just doing your own thing and and yeah, that I think one of the things there too with with Mick at the time on the five hundred when he started using a rear brake, you know, he just mind fucked everybody with that. Like you know, it didn't be because he couldn't operate his leg. He was on a two stroke, he needed a rear brake. You know, my my factory Honda turned up with a rear brake on the on the on the handlebone. I was like, Well what what do I need that for? there's enough there's enough engine braking and

stuff on the on the V four and that you don't need it. I've I've never used a rear brake on a four stroke anyway, the back wheels in the air. but you know, so he even the even the factory were thinking that we needed this stuff, but it was only because he couldn't use his foot. So, you know, and so everybody had to have a rear brake and they had to have this and you know, so

didn't know that. So when he hurt himself 'cause he had a big, big, big accident it was a lagooner, I think, where he really hurt his leg. A are are you saying that that the whole thumb break thing sort of came about because of that? the

Exactly, yeah. Well it he actually first hurt his leg down in H Hareth and broke it but no sorry, not Hareth at Asin and then he got an infection in his legs and his legs were really buggered up and he f he did fall off at Laguna again. But that's why when he was coming back and and trying to get comfort on the bike and you know, being a two stroke, there's no engine braking. So you have to use your rear brake. so he said, Well, I can't operate my leg. give me a thumb brake. so then he got a thumb brake, then everybody got a thumb brake, you know. And when you know

Speaker 1 (53:47.892)
Mick when they had the big bang engines and the screamer engines. Yeah, Mick went to the bigger bang engine before anybody. and as soon as everybody got comfortable on the big bang engine, Mick went back to a screamer engine. he could he could do their heads and not you know, and and he just had a yeah, he had a way with what he was doing and he he he he was working really well with his mechanic at the time, Jeremy Burgess. you know, when they went back the screamer engine they they undergeared them so that they were running out of power

and not producing power so you wouldn't get high sighted. But everybody was going, Well shit, we we've got to use a screamer now. You know, and they'd the swap and change and yeah. And that whole yeah, the the thumb break and stuff now, people are using it and things, but there's other ways of getting around that. I I just I think it's yeah.

You went through so much just like you it was weird 'cause you know, you had the tire wars going on, you know, you had the two stroke to four stroke thing. There's just a lot of change going on in the time you are racing. And it's really it's really interesting to me. I'm gonna bring up some of the some of if you don't mind, I'm gonna I wanna sort of stay focused on this nineties period a little bit, but I and but I also really want to learn a lot about what you went through after racing, 'cause you've had an amazing story after racing. But

So Simon Crafar, are we allowed to talk about Simon? Were you you and her mates or yeah, yeah, can you 'cause he came and joined you in one of your teams at me at one point, the RC forty five.

John S Simon's had a a very, very like me, like a a lucky timing career is timing. He's he's been in the right place at the right time. Like he's he's done a lot of some half years that have got him jobs. So he's been ready to just jump on anything and all that sort of stuff. So really, really lucky that you know in my my year ninety four with with Honda, you know, once again I signed with Honda and they signed the world champion as my teammate, you know, so but Doug

Speaker 1 (55:41.986)
just can't get on with the Honda and and you know, the the Decaddy's been so good to him for so many years. So his second year of his contract he decides to get paid out of it and not turn up. Because it didn't turn up he he because he decided this quite late on there was no other riders. So the roomy the roomy Honda with Simon Craig was going to be racing anyway. So they decided that they would give Simon the factory bike so he would just work out of our trailer. It would he would fill in poor Doug

Poland but have roomy fairings on. So he was my teammate. So very, very lucky that year to to get and then that took him on to giving a Kawasaki ride and things and and then when I had my my stroke, my aneurysm later on, he rode the first three races of that of that year as well. so yeah, he he's he turns up at the right times.

This is his helmet. This is his helmet from the GP British GP win. And I w I won it. got says two Angus on it from Simon. I actually I I I bid for it in an auction. And won won it. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty cool. But I I'm sure I'm surprised he hasn't hit you up yet for some of yours some of your memorability in the back there, 'cause he you know, he does this auction for dogs, right into dogs. Have you heard about that?

If he's watching he'll probably hit you up when he sees all of that. But but you also did the mate, you raced Foggy, Corsa, Kazinski. I mean I mean you came so so close to winning a championship, like four years, right? And very, very close to winning the world championship. And you must be so many stories talking about

Yeah, well then you look at it, ninety three I was Scott Russell's teammate. so he he wins the championship. s so that ninety three that ninety three year was very, very frustrating for me. I had a two year contract, that's was with Yamaha Australia I mean with Kawasaki Australia. mid contract, they lost their right to run the team and they gave it to Muzzy. But Muzzy had to take me 'cause I had a two year contract. so very, very lucky that I got to stay. but Muzzy was coming to Europe for the first time

Speaker 1 (57:50.806)
He was I think he he was worried about the budget and was doing some stuff, yeah, with his own team rather than just running factory bikes. I reckon my ninety two bike was better than my ninety th three bike the whole year, because we'd gone back to a bike that'd be made in America, not made in Japan. and Scott went really well on that. but Scott had only ridden that bike. So that's he knew that high horsepower top end bike

not what I was trying to ride with a bit more talky. also we went to Dunlops. I'd never ridden on Dunlop's before. Dunlops to me were and watched turned out to be the same. They were you know, they were a very slippery tire that gets you through the race. but you you throw qualifiers at them all the time, you get the best lap time and then you put up within the race. so that was a a new thing for me. And being there, I couldn't get out of my head that you you don't do any testing.

and worry about the race. so I felt like I was doing the tire testing and he was getting the knowledge of that so he could go out there and run as fast as he likes. so and at the end of that year I was starting to beat Scott and I was starting to get told by the team I wasn't allowed to beat Scott. So that was hard work. so that's that's why I actually didn't re sign with him. I thought the the team was too you know oriented around what Scott was doing. So I had to I could go stay with him or go to Honda.

And so I went to the Honda team, which was a great thing for me because it it actually got away from the management that I'd been with for so long. And so now I was my own person and probably that's where the probably that's where the the hair came from and the colours and stuff because I felt more myself than what I'd done for a long time and so I I did take my mechanics with me and and things, so it did have some normality. but you know, once again they signed they signed the World Champion.

you know, Doug Poland next to me. In ninety five Doug was supposed be against me again. In ninety six they signed Fogarty the world champion again. In ninety seven they signed Kaczynski who went on to win the championship. so it always it felt a bit like, you know, they didn't trust the results we were getting, the bike should be better because they kept cho you know, chucking money at other people and I kept betting them and you know except for the Kaczynski year, which was very, very frustrating that year. that year was

Speaker 1 (01:00:11.606)
John is just such a weird character and and and I I don't want to admit it but he did my head in and it just did my head in and and just really really bad stuff like you know the the bike we we're always under the pump with the bike was, you know, always worked together to get things done. John came to the team, not to any team meetings. I'm not not sharing any information. you know, but for three years before that I had to share every information. Yeah, I'd I'd said that before and John got away with murder.

Yeah, John John got picked up from from the airport from the by the manager of the team. John got looked after. I don't know what John had over the Japanese, but he just seemed to have something. and yeah, it it that year it rained a lot and he s he got on and rain and he seemed to win in the rain on the bike. yeah, so it was a bit of a frustrating year and and I just yeah, not a near not a very nice bloke, I don't reckon. as we came to

I mean

Yeah. We come down to the last race and John's won the championship already and to Indonesia. Indonesia I've won at before. I think I was on pole, so let's let's make it work so Honda can be one two without saying Honda's gotta be one two. the first race comes and I'm out there leading the race and then with about five laps to go, John passes me from nowhere and makes a race of it to the end. So I pass him with a a lap to go and then he calves me up going to last you cane and wins the race. You know, I was sort of starting

settled back thinking, well this is this is the result they wanted. The next race he did this very same thing to to Simon Cray for and took him off the track. by then I didn't have a very good second race because I was so wound up. I didn't go onto the the podium for when I got second for that race 'cause I just couldn't be beside the bloke. Just just couldn't believe it. we'd had a lunch that day saying this is how it's gonna pan out and he just went against it. Nothing was said to him. yeah, so that that was very, very frustrating.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09.526)
Yeah, and then Colin Edwards was my teammate in ninety eight. And in ninety eight I felt like I was the fastest rider on the racetrack. I won as mu many races as anybody that year. and saying it, Noruki Haga started the year off very well. and then he had the problem with the a drug supplement, which I think was just a dietary pill that took some points off him, so that put him out of the equation.

Yeah, man, there's so much there. I mean I I I keep thinking about just the the path to going to going pro is feels so c much clearer now for kids, right? World Superbike, you know, do well on Moto America, some of those competitions, Moto GP where you go you gotta go to Europe and do rookies cup and then go through Moto Four, Moto Three, Moto Two. It's real clear. But in those days it wasn't clear, right? And and you also had all these you know, you had the not only the the you didn't have professional managers, but you also had a lot of

The bikes were changing. everything was changing. But you just just remind us about your your your your record because if I'm right, you're one of the most winning as world super bike riders to not actually win the title, right? I mean you you came close so many times.

I was second two years for two years and and I was third for four years. Those the third places were usually two Ducaddies in front of me, so it did feel like the championship was working against me. in nineteen ninety four, when I first joined the Honda team, we had nine second places and my very first year on the bike, I was leaving championship, wasn't leaving it because we had a we had a a

fuel discrepancy that came at Donington. The very first race winning of the year I had two second places. And someone protested they took no no one protested actually they took fuel samples out of three different bikes and they took it out of my bike and Andre Me Mikl's bike and somebody else's bike and we were all running elf fuel. And ELF fuel was being run in the five hundred like was a Honda fuel that they ran in their five hundreds and they failed the fuel tests for octane or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20.346)
And all year they were taking one one race away from me, you know, be behind the champ. I had like I had two second places, so it was forty points. And then at in the end they took two races off me. They only tested me after the first race. So they didn't know what I was using in the second race. but in and out of court all year. One part I'd be leading the championship and then I wouldn't be leading the championship. And I ended up finishing third or no, second was it? Yeah. And like having nine second places in that year.

so I thought that was a pretty good start to the ninety ninety four championship. and that's the year that you know Scott was going to defend the championship and then he deflected defected to Lucky Strike 'cause Kevin Schwans stopped riding. It was the first year of the nine one six. which was which was in itself was you know an amazing motorbike, but I'm not sure where the five hundred of them were 'cause it was only two on the racetrack.

Yeah, the the whole field didn't have a nine one six, half the field had it had a eight eight eight. So I'm not sure the p production got out in time, but anyway.

Yeah, and and during that time, you know, I know that you look at guys like Zarko and others who are still racing Suzuka while racing GPs. But during that time that that and that's not common today, but during that time you still had the the three Suzuka eight albums in a row, ninety four, ninety three, ninety four, and ninety five, right? So like but that's kind of rare today. People just didn't do that. And I you know, reading your book, there's lot of good reminders to me there. And you had the I I suppose you could say n the ninety eight season,

little bit further on, it was probably the most honest telling of your career in the book. I I thought because you talked about that five and a half point loss to Poggarty in ninety eight, right? Just so close. and the the the the Monzo engine failure and there was the Phillip Island incident. there's a whole lot going on. Yeah, sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12.908)
So yeah, I re when I reflect on that, you know, if I go through it every weekend, every weekend there was a problem. and the two weekends I didn't have a problem, I had a double victory. Yeah. So it was yeah, we went to Austria and had a double victory, went to Mozano, had a double victory. you know, it's just I I just felt like I was the fastest rider all weekend, every weekend. it was just a a big change. and and I think maybe I finally got you know, finally John was out of my hair.

Yeah, we'd prove that the bike could do it and I just had to get everything in a row. But yeah, there was actually only four and a half points too. and so every weekend every weekend there was four and a half points I could have coulda shoulda had it. You know, like it was always an incident. you know, and the one that you know, the Monza incident with on the last lap the bike dropped a rod. You know, I'm not allowed to come back to the the press and say that's what happened. I have to just suck it up and say something w went wrong.

Yeah, clearly with fire coming out of the belly pan, something went wrong. But you know, there was only one lap to go in that race. that that's twenty points. yeah, there's so there's so many four and a half pointers through the whole thing, it was just ridiculous. And yeah, the very first race bidding, you know, I get knocked off by a back marker as I'm going around the outside of Hager. You know, me and Hager are dicing out on the second second and third and so there's there's another seventeen points just gone.

Yeah, there's just just so many times that it it should have gone my way. and then to come down to Sugo, which is Sugo's really, really tough. You know, the Japanese know it so well. the and as you talked before about s also the tire walls, you know, some tracks in those days just suited different tyres. So the the Dunlop Japanese Dunlop worked really well at Sugo. So you'd always have interference from the locals and to get at the front. and it's fair enough that

wildcard thing is, but you know, they would be at the front and yeah, I had a tough weekend there and and you know I there was no looking back. It's pretty hard to to win the championship at Suga. You the the results almost have to be sorted before that because you've got so much interference from from the locals. but yeah there was just different times that that four and a half points were just just sitting there ready to take. I remember going to the the n Nurberg and it was dry.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35.144)
And I think I was in in qualifying practice, not not in superpower but qualifying I think I was seven tenths faster than anybody. and in the in the superpower I rolled out and thought I'm just gonna take it really easy and I just took it too easy and ended up fourth or whatever, but didn't really matter because I was so much faster than anybody else. Then I woke up to rain that day and just pissed down all day, you know. On the dry we were just so much faster than anybody. in the first race there, I crashed out of the lead and finished fourth.

sorry, Add Adle second place and finished fourth. you know, s and but you know, I managed to pick it up, get the bike going, and finish fourth. And yeah, there's just there was so many I crashed in oil at the first round at in South Africa in Kailami. Somebody's sorry, it was water, it was leaking out of a bike. So I crashed in in water in that race. The neck like the very first race we ran the smaller discs and I glazed the discs up so I had no brakes and yeah, it was coming every race. Yeah. So

But the first time I saw you so the first time I saw you race as a as like a one of the best in the world, like was at Laguna Seca, I was there live. and yeah, that was the first time I and I was actually I had a key New Zealand flag with me. You probably don't you probably saw it, you probably don't I don't know. but anyway, I had more here then. But the first time I saw you ride at with you know, at as a guy that's in the top five in the world was at Laguna Seca and I remember my mates because it you know, the the Brita motorcycle had kind of had kind of done a thing

there and New Zealand was a bit more on the on the people, there's fucking Kiwi's this crazy guy with a weird haircut, Aaron Slight, and there's, you know, John Britton and there's all and I remember watching you. It was a g un unfortunate pilot, but I remember watching you. you there's so many things that do you think you know some people say you're the best writer to never win the title. Is that is that a label that stings you or hurts the does that what bother you or or

it is what it is, isn't it? I could still be a motorcycle mechanic in Marcel and you know, I mean if if if if time time lights hadn't suited me right, it could have been so many different things, but yeah, at the end of the day I'm pretty happy with myself and if I had been if if if a world championship was gonna make the big difference in who I am today, it would be pretty pretty poor, I think, in my character.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31.342)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57.151)
yeah I am here I am.

Well, you've got an amaz I mean, you know, you write in the book about you had a lot of self pity during that later period in the nineties and you know you'd had a bunch of you've you've you've endured a lot, but it seems to me the r the biggest comeback story, I suppose and the one that you know, is your aneurysm, right? And so, you know, th that's that's the big one. And I y are you ready to transition and talk a bit about that?

Yeah, well it and I I think it goes on a bit longer than that too. Like, you ninety eight where it just I thought I was untouchable and just like, you know, ninety nine like also ninety eight as well. I was I was testing the V twin. I was going to Japan and and getting on with the V twin and and I can remember going s to Suzuka at one race and we were riding a i as a V T R as they called it back then, a V T R Thousand firestorm. And I was riding this bike and it was so bad.

And we're at I was like the last last session of the day I was slipstreaming Ito, he was on RBF seven fifty and I was on this firestorm, modified firestorm, and I think my my lap time was half a second slower than his his, but I was twenty three K an hour slower down two straights. And I said, you know, this thing just changes direction. If we can get some speed out of it, we need to go this direction. So I think I was the person who, you know, all this testing was was like, What are we gonna do? Are you gonna carry on with this or not?

And so from that test they carried on with the BTR. And that was while I'm doing the races in in ninety eight, having to ride a four cylinder and get back and forth, back and forth. So in ninety ninety nine, I'm going, Well, you know, after last year I'm just gonna this is so good and I've got I've got two thousand to look forward to on a BTR. my twin, I'll finally get my twin. I was just gonna be so good. and I've I've got a photo at home and people put it on up on different sites every now and then. It's it's me asleep.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51.052)
in the bottom of my wheel crate with my you know you have your wheels and I'm I'm asleep in the bottom of the crate and that's how my ninety nine season started. And I'm sure to this day that that's where the pressure was getting put on my brain all the way back then. Like ninety nine was just the shit of a year. I just had I was just always knackered. got to Doctor and I got knocked off my bike by my teammate. and I I re broke my finger, put the bone through the side and then I had to

Right at Al Vacete with a broken finger. it was just it was just drama and it and it was just felt so bad. So bad. And you know, and and people say, no, the bleed will just happen, the bleed just bleeds out and that's when it happens, you know. But I'm sure being so fit and and knowing my body so well that yeah, I could feel this 'cause where it was in my it it was in my brainstem and what it was doing was putting pressure on my optic nerve.

so which was wearing me out, but also taking that five motor schools not quite right. and nine eight I just I I was seeing a doctor and I was having blood tests and I was just feeling shit the whole year. And I actually finished fourth in the championship that yeah, not didn't have a good year at all. And I was just like, What's going on? so ninety nine was was really, really you know, and I was even thinking of, you know, do I carry on? Yeah, do I carry on with racing? This is just I'm not having a good time.

after having such an amazing ninety eight. And it was just really hard work. I came back to New Zealand, I saw some doctors, saw different people. And then okay, the the V twin's coming out. So, you know, in ninety nine we were testing the V twin as well when that was wearing me out and w I was also saying to the team, you know, I'd rather just concentrate on one bike and that wasn't you know, you couldn't do that. and so n you know, two thousand came and we started the the pre season testing

We start in Australia 'cause it's summer in Australia. And I go to Phillip Island, tests okay, still knackered. And I can vividly remember finishing the test at Phillip Island and we're gonna fly to to Easton Creek to do the next test. And I I went for a s swim in the surf with with pure my mechanics and I can remember walking out of the surf and looking into the sun and the the sun was just so piercing my my eyes were stinging, I just this this headache that I couldn't couldn't describe.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14.014)
went to bed the next day, got on the flight to Sydney and got to Sydney, and I woke up in Sydney and and I I can remember pulling the curtains and having no vision. It was just black and I was just what the hell's going on here? That was and it so it took a long time to come around, but what was happening was was putting the pressure on my optic nerve and I had this double vision that was like so bad the double vision that I had to close one eye just to get by. It sort of cleared up and I I'm just in denial go to the

ring the guys and say I'll I'll be at the track but I'll be a bit late, get there for you know ten o'clock and I jump on the bike and I I do about six laps and I'm ten seconds off the pace. Like you're never ten seconds of the pace. You're you know, you're within a second, a second and a half, within three laps. And I just and I'm saying when I come out of turn three, the ones got a little bit of a chatter, but the chatter's so bad, well it's not even that bad. My brain can't keep up in focus. So it's all blurry. Okay and I'm

And I just say to the mechanics, I don't know what to tell you. I just can't I can't ride. I have no I don't know what's going on. And they're just looking at me like I'm weird, like, you know, what is going on? so I ring my doctor in New Zealand and she said, Well, we've done all these tests and done this and that and she said, The only thing we haven't done is imagery of your head. So she gets my medical file like this and she said, I I know this lady, this lady doctor at at rural North Shore Hospital.

I send the medical files to her and we'll go from there. If I drive to the hospital, immediately they give me an MRI and they find a two and a half centimetre bleed in the brain. and as I'm exiting the hospital, I'd like to drive in the render card without you know covering one eye, and going over the you know, going over the cat size 'cause I'm like get to the hospital and you have this stuff and then they say, Well, okay, we we want you to come back tomorrow and as I'm I I can't drive anymore.

I ring my mate Rob, so Rob's now in Sydney, he lives in Sydney, so he comes and picks me up. And as we're driving away from the hospital, the doctor rings back and says, Well, we don't think you should go anywhere. Come straight back to the hospital. So go straight back, straight into the hospital and very, very lucky timing's everything again. That there's a there's a doctor that's been he's actually been in California, he's he's been lecturing on this subject of malformative veins. he's on a flight back to Sydney.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40.652)
We could he can do you as a private patient in two days' time. So yeah, straight into that and yeah, cut a hole in the side of my head and and and clip off the bleed, clear it all out and I'm away apparently. So yeah, yeah. but the the this so the ninety nine is so bad. and the thing about the brain is you know, you break your arm and you put in a sling, and you're all going you rest your arm. You can't rest your brain.

Your brain is is going non well. So I can remember after the operation, I I was I was in intensive care for two days and then I was in the hospital for a couple of days and then I went and stayed at a B and B near the hospital so I could keep having checks. And I can remember sitting by the pool and I was and I n I never I never read, I just you know, I just I just do s other stuff and I can remember sitting by the pool all day and by the end of the day I said to my wife, Am I really the same

person is what I was because I've sat here all day, I've fucking done nothing and it hasn't worried me and the day's gone. I said to her, Well, I suppose if I if I can remember that, that means I am pretty normal. That means I am worried about what's going on. So you know, it's just weird. It was and and you you are just so knackered. and I was just so naked for so long. Like walking down the road, noise, noise was just and bright light was just so telling on the brain. It was just unreal and

couldn't couldn't recover, you know, couldn't sleep enough. so yeah, it was it was really, really tough. but the the you know, any time they open up your your head, say in New Zealand, they they take your licence off you for twelve months. Done. yeah for your drivers. Yeah. So I I said to the doctor, I said, when I left, I said, I'm going back to New Zealand, and he said, Well I said, Do you think I can get back to racing? He said, Yeah, no, I think so. we'll we'll look at it we'll I'd say three months.

And you know, look at it after three months. So I was sitting there with my diary and I went, Well, better make it Monday after Donington. What if you made it four weeks? You see, okay, I'll make it twelve weeks, not three months and that was Thursday before Donington. So, that gave me something to aim for and and you know, that's where I suppose I found the motivation to get back to it was I you know, I had to be ready for Donington and to get back and into it. and that's what we did. Went to Donnington. but even that th I was jump made to jump through hoops there. That there's a

Speaker 1 (01:20:06.278)
Professor Sid Watkins, he was the F one doctor. he was sent to Donington on the Thursday to observe me riding to make sure I was safe to ride with other riders. And and Professor Sid Watkins was the guy who after was it the German F one driver hit the wall, he he had a a brain injury and he was he was his doctor afterwards to get back to racing. So

So it put me through some hoops to jump through and went and watched me and then Friday I was right to to go racing in at Donnington. So yeah, it was a quick recovery really. But yeah, I think I just had that goal, had that aim. You know, I could get back to doing what I love doing and and this is the time I needed to do it and

There's a killer instinct and there's a there's a professional athlete instinct, that I can feel, you know, even after all these years they've stopped. I what I remember Matt Oxney once described, he you know, races are they're stone cold killers. They're just cold hearted killers, you know, on the track. They're just they're killers. But but most of them are kind of pretty normal off the track. But I I'm seeing the killer in you, you for the the pro athlete in you. Like would do do you do you agree with Matt? Like you feel like the

Most races are just heartstone. Yeah.

And and you're you're thinking you're thinking so far in advance, like even when you're right like you know, watching the old man lately, you know, those guys are thinking ten ten corners ahead. if you're thinking in the present, you're done. You know, so it's it's all about you know what's happening next and that's where the killer is, I think, is is is you almost get to know what's gonna happen next because you've done it so many times and it it's it's not you're not waiting for a reaction, you've already you're already on it, you know. You've been there and done it before anybody's even thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48.334)
I remember talking to Keith Code, you know, having done the California Super School a bunch of times, and it's a bit of a you probably know Keith and his books he's written. But he talked about how the the human brain is only designed to go is only designed to f understand a body moving at running or walking speed, basically. And the same with the eyes. And anything faster than that is the brain, but bodies are not designed to under even understand. And they'd studied the race, the eyes are pro motorcycle races and pro bite pro riders at the time.

And they studied the eyes, their cameras, and they can see that pro pro riders, they're just the way they process was just different, you know, and they were able to process things much faster to your point than the average track day rider, for example, right? And I'm I'm co I'm I I'm conscious because I I I know that we've had you for a long time, but I'm really curious as you think about, you know, riding, you talked a lot you talked a lot about riding on the track and and having all that farm of dirt bikes. You said a little bit of time on the street.

But did you ever do any street bike riding? d do you still ride on the street, should I say? Did you ever ride on the street at all? You know, after you stopped racing or during that time?

as a kid I used to ride to school on a on a trail bike, ride to school. so never had had road bikes, never had the you know, the I don't know, didn't didn't want to go that way really. it was only the road racing. and since you know well since I gave up racing, I n I never touched a bike for about six years, when I when I gave up. because it was just it just it was too painful. yeah, I could

turn on the turn on the T V and see Troy Corso winning the World Championships three years after I'd finished. You know, I'd I was beating that guy every week in it's just too hard to watch. you know, my my career was brought to an end because my contract wasn't renewed. It wasn't because I was too slow at it, but and it was at a time, you know, I I you know it's about the time you probably should retire, but and looking back, maybe you know, that was the the the

Speaker 1 (01:23:52.438)
you know, looking back it was a great retirement because I didn't have to make up my mind. It was just taken from me. and a lot of people I watched and I'm probably changing tune here from the road roading, but it's going down another avenue, yeah, a lot of people I watched it was just like, Bro, why don't you just stay home? You just you know, you're ever hopeful for the results of yesteryear and it's not happening. Just just call it quits. but you do as a as a

Right, you just don't see that. You see that you've had the results and it's it's all circumstance and those circumstances going to change any minute and I'm gonna be back at the top. so I'm glad I didn't have to go through that to make up my mind I needed to stop. but at the time it was it was very, very hard. yeah, for me because you know, I d I I believe that my results were good enough in two thousand to to get it and ride for two thousand and one. but circumstances at Honda were changing, they were going to four stroke

Motor G P. w they had Colin and I, so sort of, you know, two number ones. So I was paying a lot of money and the time was that, you know, they got they actually got Taddy O'Carter into ride as a second rider for two thousand and one, being Japanese, probably not the big payday. so I was spending more on Motor G P and that that retired me and what pissed me off so much was that I wasn't told until the last race that I wasn't getting renewed. So

Every other ride in the paddock was gone. so the choice of what do you do and and that's when I I did retire. So but getting back to road riding, yeah, now I've got an adventure bike and I love I love I've it's just Africa twin and I love it. Yep. Yeah. And it's it's it's a two thousand and sixteen, it's an old bike, bought it brand new. but I just I just don't want a bike that's got A B S and and traction control. Who who needs traction control when you've got ninety five horsepower?

You know, like you get on this bike, you've got to turn all the shit off that you don't want anyway. so every year I look at the new one and I just keep my old bike and I love it. It it wheelies like crazy and yeah, no, it's it's good fun and here in New Zealand, yeah, you can get away with murder. these these back roads here. and we we have a group that goes out riding. we do a big ride every year. And when you're sticking a bunch, you can do crazy speeds and

Speaker 1 (01:26:12.79)
Yeah. Nothing happens. It's it's it's awesome. Yeah. I love it. skills.

Those skills you've got, you know, I mean, they're they're always there, right? I mean you you must find yourself. I mean, even me as a fat old amateur writer, you know, even when I'm driving a car, I'm always looking for the Apex. Where's the Apex? Where's my exit? Like you must when you're on the road, are you still that way? Are you still thinking about all those things?

And I think I you need for your safety point of view, like I'm I'm always looking for an exit route, you know, like when's the tractor gonna pull out and w where's the drain gonna be and and the the guys I ride with too at like up to twenty guys are all X racers. So you're not going for around and worrying about someone trying to keep up and and endangering endangering them. We all know our limits and we all do our own thing and so yeah, it's not a worry like that. So you know, like yeah, all X races. There's a couple of Grand Prix riders, there's a couple of

Yeah, there's got three three New Zealand motocross champions, there's Gary Goodfellow who was a superbike champion. There's yeah, there's lots and everybody's yeah, on their on their game and and yeah, in my in my car I'm the same, same thing. It's just like, you know, I'm not breaking here, I'm not breaking here, I'm just flying through here. Just always thinking for sure. Yeah. And just and probably got some that's probably and sometimes it's a bit frustrating with other people. It's just like you're not thinking this way. Like I don't know.

Why are you on the brakes? Yeah, you saw that car slowing up for the last hundred metres. Why you now deciding to brake? Why couldn't you, you know, just those sort of things. Frustrate me.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41.248)
Mate, I reckon like, man, I I'm gonna have to hang it up soon, but I don't want to because I've got my my son wants me to put him to bed. but but I tell you, mate, so you've had a a a great career outside of motorcycling. I know that you've got you know you've got your your business you're involved in and you build a life for yourself and you know, congratulations on on all that maturity and and not letting you've you've had a great career. You raised some a top one percent of the one percent.

I mean, no one really gets to do that. So but I'll I'll tell you, I've got a nice garage full of motorcycles and five of them are track bikes. I've got a ZX four double R, Little Kawasaki. I've got RS six sixty, a frilly, I've got a Ducati V ch V two twin. and we've got a great track here, the Ridge Motorsport Park. It's one of the best tracks in the US. It's in the Moto America calendar. I told Simon this too, told Cormac, anytime you want to come to

US, if you are ever on the West Coast and you want to get on a track again, I would love to take you to a track. You won't tell anyone who you are, you just put the helmet on. And they'll probably wonder who the fuck this guy is because you'll be laughing everyone. But do you do you get on a track much at all these days or

I I don't and and honestly I'm yeah, it's yeah, I love the road riding. When when I get on the track I realise how slow I've got. I mean those braking distances now. Like this this year I've been very lucky that this year we've got two Wise R five hundreds in New Zealand. the two two thousand models and I've been doing demos at the at the New Zealand championship rounds on these five hundreds and you know, they are are wicked things and and

All you all you do is look at the corner and it wants to fall over on its side and go and and like a couple of times I've sort of got down the thinking I'm thinking about the corner and I've turned in way too early 'cause yeah, I've broke way too early, you know. You need yeah you need you need to keep it up for those those distances and stuff to be at last minute on the brakes and things and and that's just I'd I wouldn't mind Rodney again a bit faster, but you know that everybody's watching. You know, you know that every everybody and that's where you get on the

Speaker 1 (01:29:47.968)
on the old Africa twin and nobody knows and they might get a glimpse of that. You might be somewhere good when you go past them on the back wheel, but that's about it.

Yeah, I I've got a lot of old timer mates who are big fans of yours and not just Kiwis by the way. talking to a mate of mine today, American mate, who's like, yeah, I mean what you've got a lot of fans though and it's I'm really glad I got to meet you and speak to you and you know, 'cause we just met like literally five minutes before we recorded the podcast and I've had a lot of Kiwis on. and yeah, I'm a proud Kiwi. We we've for a small country we've produced some incredible motorsports athletes, right? And you know

my channel we sponsored Cormac Buchanan the last few rounds. I've had our sticker on the on the front. Because it's not because it's it's not about money or anything. I don't really do do it. I just love the sport, you know. So, you know, maybe Cormac Cormac he wants to be the first Kiwi to make it into Moto GP since, you know, Simon had an opportunity and so we'll see where he goes. But he's a Southland boy, so you know.

So it's a big task and they've they've really the the one thing I I know about them they've got a plan behind them and they're and they're you know going with that plan. So hopefully that's that all works out. But yeah, it's not like the old days where it just for me it was just one thing led after another and you got there eventually. they do have a plan so you know I hope it's successful for them as as well. and one of the other things I probably just just you know, talking about then about professionalism, you know, for me, you know, I've I started

getting paid to ride a bike in nineteen eighty eight. and if we put it back into New Zealand terms, super rugby, professional rugby only became professional in nineteen ninety five. So there when we were talking earlier about advice, there was no advice. You know, in nineteen eighty eight You know, are you going to have a manager or who's can you make a living out of this? All those sort of things. Yeah, I was I was seven years before professional rugby in New Zealand. there's only me and

Speaker 1 (01:31:42.698)
And Bob Charles and a couple of other golfers that were so pro athlete. Yeah, so the whole pro athlete thing, it's it's more thought of today, but back then it was like you do that for a job and you can't make very much money out of that or whatever, you it's it's it was very new.

That's funny, you actually beat me to my last question because my last question was kind of in that area, which was the twelve year old kid on a motocross bike in Marcerton, you know, what would you tell him now if you could go back and speak to yourself? Because it's a kind of an interesting kind of full circle question, right? But what would you tell him?

I have thought about that before in and little things and and you know, one of my you know, I'm very you know, the haircuts and all that sort of stuff, that was a good outlet, but I'm a very serious person. Yeah, I I wish I could have had a little bit more fun. yeah. But I don't know if me, Aaron Slike, could have got there if I wasn't being serious. So, you know, can you actually change anything? I don't know. so yeah, 'cause we had fun times, it was good fun, but I was very, very serious and I remember my

mechanic actually my manager at Honda saying one time to me that you just need to be you know take it a bit easier on the guys you're just too serious. You know, just chill out. And it's just like, well I only have this goal, you know, and I only have this amount of time to do it. And and I, you know, tried to manage people 'cause that's the other thing that people don't realise either, that in these teams, you know, a two writer team's got thirty people in them. and and you might have

Neil Tuxworth might be the director, but you're I'm the general manager and I'm managing these people for the for the result. you know, people don't get that. You know, I this is this is the only way I get there is if I manage these people properly. And to you know, because someone else telling them what to do is not going to get in there. You've got to get them on your side and get them behind you. And it did it did, you know, take me a while because I always just thought

Speaker 1 (01:33:38.636)
Because I'm so serious, they should be serious. But you know, some people's jobs are just their jobs. and and that was another person, you know, another thing that people say to me, you know, about that regime, you know, you your your engine builder is the best engine builder. And he can build an engine that's got one and a half horsepower more than the other guy. And he gets paid this much money. And then we've got the guy over here who cleans the wheels. He actually does the balancing after it comes back from Mitchell and gets in balance in the rank.

If he doesn't balance the wheels, that's worth more than the one and a half horsepower. Yeah, if that wheels out of balance, your race is done. So you can't treat people you've got to you know, the everybody everybody's got their place in a team. And

You're running your own businesses now, right? So it's probably you probably bring that to that to that as well.

Yeah, yeah, but you can, which it does does pay some dividends in the end. Yeah. You might have all this yeah, HR stuff on businesses now and what you should do and shouldn't do, but you know, it's just common courtesy and stuff and and getting back to, you know, w w knowing the person and who they are. but yeah, that's a that thing I say about that the whole you know, if the tire's not balanced, the race is done, that one, I can put up with one nile of horsepower less than the rest.

So, you know, everybody's an equal and you've got to get everybody on the on the same singing the same thing. and yeah, that's yeah, a big thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01.294)
That's good nugget, actually that that last one. I'm gonna I'm gonna quote you on that. It's a really good nugget.

That's what I'm like to get through to to Cormac too. I mean, that's one of the things, yeah, for a young guy, how do you how do you lead the team? Because all you do is look up to the team owner and look up to everybody else. But actually in the end, you've got to go down that track and when people are s sort of pointing in this direction, that's the wrong direction, you've got to actually stand up and go, No, that's we don't need to go that way. Yeah, take advice from everybody else as well, but yeah. Yeah.

That's another good nugget. There's so many good nuggets, man. well, it's been it's been really, really great meeting you. and I know that everyone listening really appreciates it. and I you can still buy your book because I found it. I actually already had the coffee. I've had two years, but yeah, you can still buy it. it's actually you can get it on eBay and Amazon still. So I'll put a link to it. yeah, yeah, you yeah, yep. And

It's funny you say you're serious. I've not met a racer who isn't really serious. I i like it is definitely a qu a a trait of all of you. The one at your ones at your level, like you know, you were at the one percent of the one percent and when you were racing, right? And it's easy to forget that. I interviewed Kayla Yakov last weekend. You should go and go and look her up. She's eighteen years old and she's like so serious and so focused and so good at what she does. And she's been that way since I first interviewed her when she was fifteen years old. And you know, I think

I think she could be the first woman to actually race at the world superbike level. she's incredible. Yeah. That would be my homework idea for you to go go go research her, Aaron. Ben Spees is about so I know Ben's a friend of yours from back then. So Ben's very involved with her career.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41.664)
Yeah, no, good, good, yeah. thank you very much. And you know, it's been a pleasure to meet you and and and get the time zones going and get this get this h happening. It's been good. Yeah. Yeah. And it's another it's like writing the book really it's a bit of a reflection, and it's you know, make me happy for a week or so.

Well, mate, I I appreciated it. Don't don't go away. I'm gonna stop, but don't go away. Well, I know this is a bit of a longer podcast than I've done before. If you made it this far, thank you very much. maybe you listened to it over a few sessions. Aaron had a lot to talk about. It was a lot to say and you know, it must have been tough talking about all those near misses, you know, all those coming so close. but there's no doubt, the guy had an amazing career and I'm proud that he's a Kiwi and

what he's accomplished and you know just a really great story and I think a lot of us don't quite realise how much these races go through today let alone back then it's not all roses it's a lot of work and it was really great to have him on. So if you enjoyed the podcast, please do me a favor, write a review. Don't get me any reviews, not sure why, but I won't take it that person I suppose but good, bad, ugly, write a review. That'd be cool.

and even send me an email. it's angus at kiwimoto seventy two dot com. Just tell me what's going on, tell me what you'd like to see. I'm all ears. Again, it's not my day job. I do this for fun. I love the sport and yeah, I'd love to hear from you. So enjoy the rest of your day, night, morning, whatever it is you're up to, and we'll see you on the next podcast. Cheers.