Racing Harley’s and Sport Bikes at Moto America, with Rocco Landers

🏁 Rocco Landers: MotoAmerica’s Rising Star 🏁

In this episode, we sit down with Rocco Landers, one of the most exciting young talents in American motorcycle racing. From dominating the MotoAmerica Junior Cup & Twins Cup to making waves in the King of the Baggers series, Rocco’s journey has been nothing short of incredible.

We talk about:
✅ How he got started in racing and his early influences
✅ The mindset and training that set him apart from the competition
✅ The technical side of racing—bike setup, suspension, and performance tuning
✅ His biggest career challenges and what’s next for him in the sport

If you’re a fan of motorcycle racing, this is one episode you don’t want to miss!

🎧 Listen now on [Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, etc.]

📌 Follow Rocco Landers:

• Instagram: @roccolanders97
• Facebook: Rocco Landers Racing
• Website: roccolanders.com

🔥 Follow KiwiMoto72 for More Exclusive Interviews & Moto Content:

• YouTube: @kiwimoto72
• Instagram: @kiwimoto72
• Podcast: KiwiMoto72 Conversations in Motion

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Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:04.364)
Well, good day, everyone, and welcome back to the podcast. Today we're to have a bit of a chin wag with Rocco Landers. Now, Rocco is an impressive young racer here in the US and has really excelled in Moto America, where he has won three Moto America championships, both twice in a row with the Moto America Junior Cup, which is now known as the Talent Cup, and also Moto America Twins Champion.

Over the last two years, he's been competing in the King of the Baggers series and in his first two years has podium nine times and won three races. So he is one of the first US races to compete and podium across four different classes in Moto America. There's no doubt he's a talented guy and a lot of fun to talk to. So if you enjoy getting inside the heads of races and understanding a little bit about

how they think, how they check in, where their career's gone, then stick around for this. Also, if you join the podcast, it would really help us if you could leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, your favorite platform of choice. This is a brand new podcast in terms of those platforms. We've been on YouTube now for about a year and folks seem to like the content. So if you like the content, take a minute, write a review. I'd really appreciate it. All right, let's go chat to Rocco.

you

Speaker 1 (01:34.766)
you

Speaker 2 (01:43.096)
Well, good day, Rocco. Mate, it's awesome to have you here on the podcast.

Thank you for having me, I'm very stoked.

Yeah, well, I'm stoked. And for the audience listening, got what I heard of Rocco for the first time about seven years ago, when I was spending a bit of time with Keith code at the California Sue Blake School. And we're just talking about up and coming races. And that's when I first heard Rocco's name. And Rocco was, I don't think even a teenager then. But Rocco, why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us who you are, what you do, all that stuff.

My name is Rocco. race in King of the Baggers and stock 1000 for, uh, Fancy Nides and motor sports right now. And like you said, I've been working with the schools and I'm at Met Keith like the day after I was born. So it's been a, it's been a long path and heck, bicycles helped me every step of the way. But yeah, it's kind of right now I've won three Moto America championships. So was in the junior cup in 2019 and 20 or 2020 and then in the twins cup in 2020 as well.

Still racing about America, having tons of fun. Can't complain.

Speaker 2 (02:48.952)
That's great. I definitely want to sort of sort of roll back a little bit on like how you got started in racing and all of that stuff. yeah, I mean, so you obviously you had your back to back championships in the Junior Cup, right? Yeah. And what exactly is the Junior Cup? What's what is that? What sort of bikes are they? What are the what are the requirements? Well,

So Junior Cup actually that does it in 24 was the last year they ran that class. They replaced with the talent cup this year, which is the Kramer 350. I think I don't remember exactly. It's a 350 KTM, but it was Ninja 400s, R3s, CBR 500s, the RC 390s and kind of just that sort of bike, like just the super ultra lightweight, the ultra lightweight street bikes. I raced on a Ninja 400. I had some really good friends help us out. My dad.

My dad made the program kind of happen and then we had Jeremy Toy and a good friend, Jesse Norton hop on board. So it was fun. of just, Logan kind of ran the team out of our house here in LA and then, and a shop in San Diego called Lee's cycle. And it was, it was really fun. So that was some of the best days of my life.

Yeah, that's awesome. and is that you know, the rookies cup, the Red Bull rookies cup, which obviously is out of Europe, that's obviously a different thing. But I know a lot of listeners ask me that like, that's like, you have to be I think, minimum age of 16. They're racing on RC 390s too, right?

No, they raised the race. I mean, now I think it's the newer maybe a newer spec, but they used to race the older spec KTM Moto3 bikes. And I think they recently changed the age. It might be it's 14 or 15 through like, I don't know, 21 or 20 or 18 or 21 or something. But you just go whenever I was doing it, it was 13 to 18. But I I raised that in 2020 as well. But unfortunately, COVID really, really screwed that up. So I ended up.

Speaker 1 (04:41.462)
At one point, like one, one of the countries had essentially barred Americans from entering under basically all circumstances. So I had to get stuck and we improvised by doing twins cup and junior cup on top of that. And I did, I mean, I did two rounds and I felt like I did decent after those first two rounds, but it was like, what are you really going to do? Like I had the last time I'd written a prototype bike was maybe two years before that. And I just had to adapt and

I actually felt good. At one point I was within a tenth or two, or within a second of the top, not a tenth or two, my bad. But within a second of the first place in one of the sessions and I was stoked and I wasn't there in the race. But I'd felt that if we'd been able to keep going, I'd had a decent chance of actually finding some time, maybe not.

winning or getting in the top three, but I felt that I could be kept progressing and it was definitely a bummer. And also I grew, I grew a lot. So I got selected when I was like five, five, maybe 120 pounds, I don't know, some somewhere around there. Then I, once I went to race, I was around five, nine, about 135 pounds, 140 pounds. So I was definitely the biggest guy there. And that was, that was tough, but I mean, it was a great experience and I had tons of fun.

Yeah, no, it's cool. didn't know that. And I definitely want to talk a bit a lot about growth as we go on. Cause obviously growth is obviously a lot of things, physical, mental, emotional. I didn't know that you'd and that's, suppose of all races, there's always going to be challenges that whether it's COVID or whatever it is injuries. I didn't know you had actually done that. and I mean, I interviewed Cormac Buchanan a few months ago. If you know Cormac, yeah. So

Is it the selected in the year that I tried out? think he got selected the next year. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:31.628)
Yeah, he's the first Kiwi actually since Simon Kreyfa to qualify for GP. So he's going to be in he's going to be in Moto3 this year. Which is pretty cool. But and then you went on to Moto America, right? And so what I noticed is you've been super flexible. Like I know you've been competing really well in Mission King of the Baggers. But you've also raced in other classes, right? In Moto America.

Yeah, I that. It's thick.

Speaker 1 (06:59.03)
Yeah, so I've raced and I was the first guy to win in a in four classes. I have won in Junior Cup, Twins Cup, Super Sport, and Baggers. Hopefully we'll make it five this year in stock. But who knows? We'll try. We'll try our best. But yeah, it's just I feel like riding as many bikes as I did as a kid and the amount of experience I have. I mean, I've been riding since I was two. I've been I've been racing since I was five. It's

It's been a path, but I've had tons of experience on lots of different types of machinery and maybe that assists in giving kind of the best possible chance whenever going from bike to bike. I mean, the bag is our own thing though. That's a completely different, different vehicle compared to anything.

Yeah, so I'm glad you put that up. So were you born and raised in California and LA?

Yes. Yeah. So I was born in LA and Burbank and I lived here almost my entire life and I'm close to Glendale now. So yeah.

How does a kid in LA get exposure to motorcycles in the way you have from such a young age? I'm curious, like what, where, how, why, like?

Speaker 1 (08:08.067)
My dad was a coach at the school. He was one of Keith's first coaches to do the seminars. Have you done the school?

I've done 50 days of the school now. Oh, yeah.

Okay, okay, okay, that's done.

Yeah, know what I'm talking about. but he he uh, so he did his seminars and he uh, he'd moved out here from from Missouri where he lives now. He moved back, but he'd moved out here and uh, for racing and he met Keith through some people and started working, working at the school and kind of worked there from the late nineties until like 2009, 2010. And then I started racing and uh, kind of snowball from there.

But he definitely, he got me into it. was, I can give him 100 % credit for that.

Speaker 2 (09:00.642)
That's cool. And it's, it's, actually a really good story because you know, lot of people I meet, like my son, for example, you know, if I felt like he was really good on a bicycle, had some level of unlike, well, let's get on a dirt bike. But, for you, it was kind of almost like from the day you were born, it was, you know, you were destined to at least ride, but I suppose there's a difference between riding and enjoying motorcycles and then wanting to go racing. so how did that was racing always a goal or.

So whenever I was really little, my dad would take me on rides on dirt bikes and whatnot. So for riding, I guess he would take me on like a little like one of those baby pouches. And I guess I just always pass out. Like I would just fall asleep whenever I didn't really matter. Like we're at 450. How fast we're going. I guess I would just always like you have to like hold my head and fall forward when I was really little. And I guess the only time that he could get me to sit still was whenever like Supercross or

I guess GP sometimes was on TV. He was a big super cross man as am I now. But I mean, I've always been like a annoyingly competitive dude. I've kind of been trying to get rid of that lately, so I have less of an ego. But but I mean, sorry, my earbuds keep fricking up.

No, it's okay. You've got more hair than me. So, you know, I didn't have that problem with hair buds. So, here it is, it knocked them out.

Yeah, they keep like just like slowly doing their little thing now, but yeah, I'm getting.

Speaker 1 (10:40.558)
haven't met him. mean, I've seen all of his work. He's great.

did a podcast of Matt and he basically said like, you know, races are basically cold hearted killers. This is almost exact words. That's what they are. are race. You are, you have egos as kind of what defends why I'm not a racer, but I'm a pretty, think I'm a pretty good track day. I don't like I'm an a group fast track day writer, right? But I'm not a killer. I didn't have that instinct. Like tell me, why do you, why do you feel like the ego is bad?

mean, it's not that the ego is I'm talking like if I'm in any state if I played a game of Uno and I start losing my mind because my hyper competitiveness I gotta be I learn to turn it on and turn it off. It me like on track like like realistically it's nothing personal like it is very rare cases where it's personal where I'm like, okay I want to beat that guy but like normally like like I can turn it on like when I get on track is more is more I don't really

It's like I'm just I'm just doing everything I can to get to the front. That's the ego. like I'm like, I can turn it off when I get off track because I feel that it's unnecessary to be one of those guys where you're just always kind of just being like cocky or mean. And I definitely used to be like that, honestly. Like I used to and it's it doesn't win you any fans. It doesn't win you any sponsors. And it's not a nice thing. It's just not cool. Like you get who wants to be that kind of guy that no one likes. And I mean, I

I kind of learned to just be a little bit more centered and down to earth, or tried to be. I mean, I'm not saying that I am yet. Definitely have my moments, but it's a big deal just to learn to be able to turn on and off. Like you can still be highly competitive and have a massive ego.

Speaker 2 (12:19.886)
Interesting. Yeah, that's some, know that as a racer and as a pro, it's kind of, would say it's easy to kind of maybe even just take that for granted, but for a mere mortal like me, you know, trying to understand like kind of what, what defines a old fat 53 year old guy like me, who's pretty fast in a group from a young professional racer like you is.

kind of exactly what you said. It's I only really want to compete with myself. So if someone passes me on the track at a track day, I'm like, Oh, I'm going to go. I don't want it. Cause for me, it's just about what I'm working on my plan. I'm working on hitting that Apex better or getting out of that corner faster, which I definitely want to talk to you about as we get into this. I want to get your views on a lot of things about writing, but, okay. So, so that's helpful. But was there a moment when you realized, Hey, you know, shit, maybe I can make a career out of this. Um,

I I got up and like I knew about MotoGP and kind of how it works since I was really little. So my goal was always like, my goal was always like, like it's tough to say like, my goal was to be this. My goal was to that. My goal was to make living racing. And like right now I'm at the point where I'm able to do that, which is like the fricking luckiest thing ever. And I'd say it'd be nice to go to four super bikers GP, but I mean, at this point it's,

Like there are opportunities that are so few and far between and it would take so much money to like, we just didn't have the money to get into the series that would have directly taken us there. So it's kind of taking the back route right now. And I'm really enjoying it. mean, who else gets to race? I really just want like 12 other people on earth. And I'm, mean, then there's some of the most fun bikes that I've ever ridden. It's quite the experience.

Yeah, let's talk about that. So, I've been thinking a lot about about the bagger series and when I first heard about it I was like great. We're gonna have Harley's like spilling oil all over track and fucking it up.

Speaker 1 (14:07.918)
That's how it was in the beginning. right, right.

And it's funny because this is going to sound like a pretty weird sort of parallel. But my first time on the racetrack was in the eighties on two strokes on Vespers and Lambredders, which are scooters. we used to race Vespers. And there's actually a whole. I guess.

MRA the series out in Colorado has a Vesper it's that's kind of funny just a side note continue

No, no, but like when I think about Harley's, felt it's kind of similar parallels like what I actually wrote a Harley. I've written a Harley twice from Seattle to New York and back. And I did it when I first moved here because I wanted the whole American experience. You know, got to run across America on a Harley. Yeah. And but I didn't have the leather chaps or the leather vest or any of that, you know, stuff, the testicles and shit. I'm

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (14:58.958)
like the half helmet. But tell me about the class. How many, is this your second year in the baggers?

Yeah, so 2025 will be my second year. I've it's funny. I've never actually ridden a Harley off of the track, so I don't really know exactly how they are. But like the race bike is I mean, it's a race bike. It feels you can break deep. You can you can accelerate hard, even harder than most bikes because it slides so well. mean, the thing that closely I could compare it to would be a cross between a supermoto and a flat track bike because of the amount that you can steer it with the rear end is crazy. Like it's super, super long and it has like.

190 something pounds of torque or somewhere around there. could be, I could be low ball and or high ball and I don't really know. That's kind of what I've heard through the grapevine in general. It's just a crapped on a, crapped on a torque and a ton of horsepower and it's long and heavy. So it's just spins like you can, when you open the throttle, you can just like have it. It's, kicks out to a certain angle and you can just give it full throttle and it will just carry that slide for as long as you're leaned over. And sometimes even when you're not like at home said, we were testing a couple of weeks ago and uh,

it like you there's this like kind of like right into a little dip and then you go left up kind of. But you're like not really leaned over like you're you have maybe that much lean angle and it slides all the way until you're like halfway down the next straight and the wear mark is in the middle of the tire. So it's crazy. You don't see you don't see like on super bikes, you'll see the wear mark kind of more on more towards the top than you would see on like a six hundred and six hundred more so than like a twin and it's been more so than a four hundred.

But you never see it in the middle like you do on a bag or so. can imagine.

Speaker 2 (16:36.718)
That's like, that opens up a whole new sort of physics discussion, right around a, well, you know, at the end of a day, you know, you're on top of a gyroscope, which so long as it's staying in motion, it's going to want to stay upright, but you're on a different type of gyroscope with the Harley, right? The torque, the length, the rake is longer. Everything is different. Who would like, so when you talk to the guys that first pioneered it, cause I know that, correct me if I'm wrong, you actually had two victories in your first year, right? On the baggers. Yeah.

We want to race it at coda and in jersey and race one and both

Dude, that's amazing. I'll be at Koda for MotoGP this year. But yeah. you are? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe we should hang out. But the guys that pioneered it like did it for the first time. Who were they? Like, what stories do they have to tell about like this time?

I will, I'm trying to make it out there myself.

Speaker 1 (17:30.894)
Well, the first year was 2020 and they did a one off at Laguna and Tyler O'Hara raced the, he raced the SNS bike for E-Race. They basically just, I think they just took an Indian and just bolted a bunch of random stuff on it all around. And it like they made some parts, but like realistically, I mean, I think they were doing the same times as the 400s. And then like the next closest guy was Gillum and he still had like the platforms and he was on a street glide.

And that was actually advanced in irons, but they had the Harley street glide, but it was, was still so new. Like it was such a, it was such a cluster. Like so many bikes blew up, like people kept running off. looked like everyone was puffing smoke. I mean, at one point, Frankie, Frankie looped and that was crazy. He'd try to practice start and fully looped himself and had a bagger land on it, which dudes just the tank. I don't know how he, how he survived that. And he still got a podium, which was so sick.

Yeah, it's it's it's it's um, it's really interesting to hear the stories because you know, um, I think a lot of people will think well, know, it's amazing marketing on on harley's part But actually they do have a race pedigree, right? mean they they they were flat track races for years and years

And they had the old whatever I can remember the designation they had, but it was the old super bikes with Miguel and whatnot back in the day. So we go to almost so. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Then the next year. So factory hardly came in the next year and it became kind of a war of manufacturers, which is like, I mean, at this point, it's the only class that still has that in MOTO America, except for except for hooligans at this point. But hooligans and baggers are one and the same, in my opinion, kind of as a concept. I mean, it's

There's every again, it's the final class where, where you can proper it. Like you have a properly good chance of being able to make a living. Like except for super bike and maybe the top, top, top super sport guys. And even then it's just like the top super bike guys. So where in this one you can, you have competitive, a lot of competitive bias, competitive teams, like exorbitant, unnecessary amounts of money going into bike development, like necessary, but like it's a lot. yeah, and the, I mean, they're great. And it's, it's.

Speaker 1 (19:36.718)
Like working with manufacturers is something that every series needs because it increases fan engagement and increases the competitiveness of the series. I'm grateful for the baggers.

Now you're speaking like more of an eraser right now, which is cool. I like the way you're talking about that. Cause you sort of the, um, the segment itself, um, of motorcycling as you break it down, whether on the street or on the track, um, has been on the track. It's been very, very limited to, you know, super sport, super bike motor GP class. Um, whereas other motor sports, you know, like auto, right? You've got formula one, indie, NASCAR, you've got all these different, um, all these different classes. And, um, you know, um,

I think that's great. I think it's good for the sport. I would say at first, I didn't think it was good for the sport, but I've actually come around now and I know you guys were also at. We were in Spain. So you were in Spain at the end of the last season racing in front of the MotoGP crowd I heard. Is that right?

I, uh, about a week before I was doing the training day and dislocated my shoulder. I was getting ready for the race and I'd been like preparing, you know, and I got everything in a row. Like I'd, I'd put, I'd put like a halt on the jujitsu training that I was doing. So I didn't get hurt doing that. And I just went simple day last session of the car track. It was, was, it was getting, starting to get dark. And my God go out and just, I wadded and tossed myself in the weirdest way possible at about 12 miles an hour.

And I tripped, I can't, like, I either, like it felt like I got my foot stuck, like I say, the thing flipped over and I think I caught my foot on the bar inside the hand guard and it just like caught and whiplash, like slammed me on my shoulder. And it was not fun. It was highly painful as all shoulder dislocations are. And I spent a grueling 20 minute drive headed to Riverside Hospital wanting to.

Speaker 1 (21:32.684)
Wanting to just like, you know, just chop it off, you know, get rid of it. It was terrible. And then they took care of it.

Is crashing on a bagger feel any different to crashing on a sport bike?

It's funny because the bagger it gives it's numb, but it still gives you a lot of feel so like you can you can keep the thing leaned over and like you feel the front like doing a lot more before you went on a sport bike and it's a more obvious and say with the rear Even though it's kind of numb but like it's a lot harder to save like a proper like Something gnarly like if it's a rear end slide like it's it's fairly easy like to have it just like slide and come back

Where the same slide might cause you to get high slided off on a super on like a super bike a super store bike like the front I mean once it goes like there's no saving it and it's because the bike's so heavy like you look at my crash in Jersey was funny because like a month before I did that I had like the polar opposite of a crash that was like 12 13 mile an hour I tossed myself down the front straight at New Jersey at around 125 It was like 24.7 or something point six, but I

Like I just got taught and like I had, I mean, minimal injuries. Like I have a area on my lower back. That's that's got like some, it's like the skin, I got like a gnarly contusion or whatever, whatever, like this step. I can't remember what it's called, but this step above a contusion. It was like, was, was, it was purple at purpose. It was black and blue, but like other than that, like I still race the next day. It was totally fine. I mean, couldn't walk too well and I didn't take a week off of work, but.

Speaker 2 (22:59.331)
Yes.

Speaker 2 (23:10.882)
Yeah, yeah. saw that crash. watched that crash. So you've won obviously championships in a bunch of different classes and clearly you're talented and you're still not even a drinking age. I know you're up late last night, which is why you're yawning a lot, but it wasn't because you're out partying because you're not a drinking age. You're doing other stuff. how did it feel to achieve success so early on and how did you, you know,

How did you handle that? have good people around you to not let it go to your head and to stay focused? Do you put it down to anything?

I mean, like getting to the point where I'm at, like I would give that credit for that to my dad and whatnot. also like, you live, learn. mean, I'm not particularly old, but like, mean, you have life experiences and you get put in different positions and you learn from things. I mean, it's just every day, every day is a learning experience for everyone, whether they admit it or not.

It's a common theme. Every racer, honestly, every, almost every racer I've met on the podcast says similar things, in slightly different ways. But the most common theme is the encouragement from their parents, know, maybe you're

I would not be here with my dad. I would have my dad. And the same for my whole family. My whole family was helping run a team. My mom was cooking and my sisters were providing crazy entertainment. And this is running around.

Speaker 2 (24:44.558)
That's cool. That's cool. your sisters, you've help? You've got a of sisters, younger sisters, older sisters?

Yeah, so I got two sisters and I got a little brother so he's the two sisters are now 18 and 16 and my brother is He's 13. My little sister does a 60 year old serious the 400 chuck Wallace actually there headed there today. I think her tomorrow

you're so lucky to be near Chacoala. For those of you not of the US, Chacoala is like kind of a year round racetrack in Southern California.

It's year round, it's September to April. You can't ride during the summer.

So it's a winter race track. There you go. So for me, it feels like a year round because I always see it around this time of year. So that's a good check in on that one. And so, you know, as you think about like your training routine, I'm curious, you're young, so you have a lot of biology on your side right now. For me, as an old guy, the prep I do off the track is, you know, obviously even is more important than the track, prep I do on the track.

Speaker 2 (25:47.694)
getting ready just for, you know, I did five days in a row. I did about 20 track days last year. I did five in a row. 50 year olds. Yeah, well, what do you do? So what do you like as you think about your training? Like, what does a typical week look like now as a pro, you're preparing for a race? What does it look like?

than I did.

Speaker 1 (26:07.342)
I I've recently gotten back into any sort of training because I couldn't run or cycle or anything. couldn't. The only only exercise I could do was like if I put a sling on and sat on a stationary bike, because I could have like no impact. like normally, normally I do run like a couple of runs a week. I just go running and then I try to visit the cart track or do at least something else. gym like I had to callus and extra my favorite actually. So push ups pull ups that I've.

only been able to do one push-ups since hurt myself. It's actually a funny thing. So I went from being able to do four to 25 in a set with my left arm after I hurt

Okay, so you can only do one arm push-ups. I can maybe only do a 10.

Now my arm is like, it doesn't work too well. I don't have strength down to it yet. It was funny when we tested at home and I was like lifting my arm. was like, well, I was totally good. Like my hand and my forearm are totally good, but it's just like still a little bit like, it's not like so much pain. It's just like so atrophy and weak up on my shoulder.

What is Homestead? Is this Homestead Harley's training track or something?

Speaker 1 (27:13.58)
No, Homestead Miami Speedway is just the NASCAR track down in Miami. OK, OK. It's a winter racetrack.

What does Harley provide, I mean obviously you're a sponsor, you're a writer, sponsored writer, like what do they provide in terms of off track support for all that stuff?

I mean, the Harley bagger teams didn't contest with the factory team. I I raced for Vinson Hines. I'm racing all Harley and Harley supports us immensely, but I raced for Vinson Hines. So, mean, there's not a ton of, it hasn't quite grown big enough to have like a big off track training facility and whatnot. I mean, perhaps it will in the future, like we have for Supercross teams.

Yeah, mean, like, the thing is, is I suppose if like NASCAR is one of those things that's uniquely American, most people I say America don't like it, if I'm honest. But but but

I get it, honestly. not a huge... I mean, I'll watch NASCAR once in a while, but I'd prefer IndyCar myself.

Speaker 2 (28:18.134)
Well, you would know who Scott Dixon is then because Scott said I do Got a few Kiwis that have come out of New Zealand and motorsports you got Scott Dixon and Indycar Bruce McLaren McLaren Motorsports. He's a Kiwi Yeah, yeah, you got The Britain the Britain motorcycle yeah, right Ian. Yep. Yeah

who Scott Destin is.

Speaker 1 (28:30.998)
Yeah!

Speaker 2 (28:42.35)
massively innovative motorcycle that no one had heard of until he turned up at Laguna one year and beat Albuquerque's and he built it by hand and like a garage in New Zealand. I'll have to share some information on that. But I feel like what you're doing, I can see this bagger class going global and you could be the guy, right? I mean, you're young, you could go and race all over the world and is that something you aspire to do? What is your love? What do you really love? Is it sport bikes or baggers who you're not allowed to say?

I'm not allowed to say. They both have equal, they're equal. I love them both for different reasons. And we'll just see where the wind takes us. If it ends up being a full-time bagger thing, or if I end up just racing, if it baggers for any reason goes away, I get better, like my opportunity looks way better to race sport bikes. I'll take what goes, like we'll go where the wind takes us.

Hahaha

Speaker 2 (29:37.12)
tell you what, Ben, let's transition to sport bikes in because I'm curious. Every rider I talk to talks about how important like, you know, bike setup is. And I noticed that some riders, some races are very involved in it more than others. If you look on the MotoGP side, Alessio Spargaro seems to be very, very engaged in it. He's one of the riders I follow a lot. If you look, a lot of riders are very

They may not be as successful on the track. mean, Alessio had mixed success, he rode motor GP, so he wasn't a fool, but like one of the best apparently in terms of helping the engineers progress the bike. How involved are you like on the sport bike side and providing feedback around the suspension setup, the overall setup you have, like, do you have like preferences on how your bike's characteristics are set up?

Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm a complete absolute clueless idiot when it comes to like actual like knowing how to work on it, knowing what does what that I can tell. I'm pretty decent, especially on like bikes that I'm comfortable on and telling you what they're doing wrong. Like I can be like, OK, well, this is this. This is that this is that. Then my my crew chief can take that and do a change that benefits it. I was more involved on the R6. The R6 is really finicky when it comes to set up and like my dad and I would be on a

Because he was one of the team we just be like on everything and he'd be reading it I'd be telling him exactly everything about it because our six is like a knife's edge It's a sick bike and it like when you have it working like it's maybe the best chassis ever created in production but Like chassis like you think it is the way it works, but it's so hard to set the thing up like it is impossible and it No It's these these freaking earbuds I need to get some new ones that actually like stay in

That's a skull candy. Right now they're not great. They're like 20 bucks, but I probably should have gotten some more expensive. I got it specifically for this. I didn't have it.

Speaker 2 (31:31.534)
Maybe I'll stand you as a thank you.

But yeah, no, like now that I'm racing this is a game in one thing Suzuki's are known for is being very easy to set up. It's hard to get him to like, like, you can't get a best perfect say sometimes as an R6 and especially a thousand, a thousand is never going to handle quite as good as a six hundred. Just the way and the way it's set up and everything. But Suzuki's are so easy to set up it like I can kind of on the GVS eight last year, I could just like say some big stuff to my

They are even super specific stuff to my crew chief and he could do that and put some change in it. 99 % of the time it was a big deal. But I operate in a certain way. So I'd like to find the base setup. Like I like to find like a very good setup that kind of works damn good everywhere. Cause I can ride at the same everywhere. I don't have to change my style and do other things like Laguna. doesn't work because Laguna is super different. Laguna is a special case. But to find a base setup of the bagger, we were in the same setup basically except for plus or minus some clickers.

and maybe a little bit of spring rate at Laguna or at New Jersey and Koda. And you cannot find two more diametrically opposed tracks. like, I mean, the spring rate and maybe a few things were slightly different, but more overall, it was very similar. And that's how I like to operate. I like to have like on the 400, we found a base setup and almost never deviated from it on the.

On the six, 650, I mean, I mean, only rode it a few times, so I can't really say that the R6 that was exactly the key to our success in 2022 is we finally found it. And I figured out a ride to thing. And I mean, last year on both bikes, like it was kind of a struggle on the, on the twin because we didn't have any testing. We'd never, never once tested the thing outside of a race. So I was always kind of on the back foot when it comes to track time, but on the bagger, I mean, that's just what we did. And it was, it showed it was a, it was a big deal.

Speaker 2 (33:23.246)
Yeah, I mean, the reason I asked the question is, I, even for an old guy, I spent a decent amount of time on Reddit and other things. I'm listening, know, watching, you know, communities of track day people or bike enthusiasts, some old people like me, some brand new to it. And so many people in these forums, I kind of have to bite my tongue. They're like, Hey, here's the pictures of me. Like, how does my body position look? Or what should I change? And like, Oh, I've got this bike and I put all these things on it.

I'm not going faster and part of me just wants to say like, focus on the fundamentals. Stop worrying about all the shit you're putting on it. Don't try, if you're like trying to get.

show of your new drink. my R1N that I just bought as my first bite.

Right. Well, you get these pictures of these guys like they're like the bike is like this and they're leaning off the bike so they can drag their knee and like, I'm like, well, maybe you should get lean at the it's there to judge lean angle, not body angle, right? Your body's off, but your bike is not leaning like what, what do you

people. Yeah, like those people. Okay. I don't really care. Like, like they do their thing. If they're cool, like honestly, I'll hype them up. Like, like if, someone's cool and like, Oh, Hey, look, I dragged my dude, killed it. Nice job. But you'll get some that it's like, they take it so seriously and their ego is so big because they've written like on the street for two years as well. So they're a veteran, but like they'll come to the cart track and then they like, Oh no. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm like,

Speaker 1 (34:51.598)
I've won so many streets like I kind of know what I'm doing. And then like, then a kid passes them like a little kid passes them on track and they lose their mind and they, uh, they'll just excuse after, excuse after excuse. And I'm like, dude, you were on like a 450 this dude's on a 150 or you were on a 150 this kid's on a 65. It's like, yeah, pass me outside because of your weight. Okay.

That's what like, so like I, I rode on the street for 30 years. I rode all over the world. Well, that's what I want to get to in a minute. But the reason I bringing it up is that I turned out to my first track day at the age of 45 after 30 years on the street. And I think if I had turned up as a 19 year old, I would have been the person you just said, but I turned up.

I have never been to this state.

Speaker 2 (35:37.422)
wanting to learn, right? And started on a leader bike and then went down to a 400 and now I'm on a 660 RS 660. I'm doing and do like one of the racer told me that last year of a track is I do take that lap timer off your bike. It's not gonna help you. You're not racing. Just forget about that. And I, my local track is the ridge, right? And I'm doing the best time I've done. The best time I've done is just under two minutes, which I know is slow for you, but fast for me.

400?

660, 660.

That's still not bad. mean, I think dude it's been a minute since I've been at the ridge I haven't ridden the ridge for anything since 2023 and even then I don't really remember the lap times that was on the twin but I mean Yeah, I can't remember like 400 would have been would have been like 50 something or maybe yeah, I remember something like that Yeah, it's not bad at all. No, and the ridge is a difficult track It's got so much so much twisties and it's it's it's probably the most technically difficult track in the country. But yes

Yeah, it's definitely a great track to learn. I've done a bunch of other tracks, but getting back to you. So yeah, was going to you preempted me. Do you ride on the street? And you said you don't and you've never ridden on the street, huh?

Speaker 1 (36:47.168)
No, I don't have a street bike. I mean, maybe I would, maybe I'd try to pop some wheelies in front of some girls in the street, but probably a good thing that I don't have one to be honest with you.

Is there a reason why you don't? Was it your parents discourage you from it?

I around to it. I mean, I had the opportunity a couple of times where if I'd like could maybe get one, if I like won a certain thing and every single time I was like second and I didn't get it.

But it's, I'm like curious because, know, lot of, okay. Okay. So you don't have, I was curious because a lot of pro sports, don't allow their riders or drivers to do certain things. and I was always surprised. I don't know Josh here. And I think he's fucking awesome. I watch him race and I'd to him. If you want to introduce me, let me know. I'd love to get him on the podcast, but I, noticed on Instagram, like he's doing crazy shit on the street on his Ducatis. I'm like, Whoa, like

Yeah, they're fun.

Speaker 2 (37:39.15)
Oh, like, are you taking risks? Or is it more for the marketing for Ducatix and I sponsored but

Probably a bit of both, I mean, he's a... Josh will be the first to tell you, he's kind of a hooligan and he's really, really good at it. Like he'll do some stuff on that like stock V4 that I could not imagine doing. Like just this big 12 o'clock wheelies that he skids the thing. I'm like, I'm good for you dude. Like power to you, it's sick. And I love that his team lets him do that.

He's hilarious watching him on Instagram. He does some cool shit. But I guess you don't write on the but you might write on the street. you know, I think it's, think about racing in the U S you know, I'm from New Zealand, you know, a little country bottom of the South Pacific. Yeah. I look at Europe.

I have always wanted to New Zealand by the way.

Well, if you ever want to go, let me know. I'll hook you up. And I know you like supercross. And so maybe I should introduce you to Cormac if you don't know him, because he is massive supercross guy and he's from the South Island, New Zealand. He's a lot of supercross and flat track racing growing up.

Speaker 1 (38:36.878)
Did you have that new super cross kid? Like, what's his name? David.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll pop it up in the street. But yeah, we do actually have a pretty good history in supercross. Let's talk about talent. What's like I'm following all these different talent. There's a European junior motor GP. There's the on the women's side, there's the FIM women's superbike champion, which I think is great, by the way, to see I had Mallory on a couple of weeks ago. for talent development in Europe, though, you there are a few kids like, you know, we're going to be doing interviews soon with Kenzai. Who's a young,

Yeah, you're with them at when I met you at keys party. Yeah, you know, he's he's like he's looks like he's gonna you know, he's turning a few heads in Europe, but I know it's really hard as a racer like even at the Moto three level, it's expensive. Like I'm learning this like don't think because you're sponsored at the Moto three level even like it's hard.

Well, I mean, three is like for proper motor three is more expensive than motor two. Like you have to build that to build motor three by so much. they're they have a lot less restrictions about it. He's a sealed motor that you get from trying.

Right. it really just money? Right, The Moto 2 is a much more controlled sport. Is it really just money? it talent? it like, what is it really that's holding us back and getting more talent?

Speaker 1 (39:44.014)
Yeah, that's it.

Money into that.

Speaker 1 (39:54.478)
In the US, I would say I would say a lack of development. mean, like a lack of development, a lack of opportunities. He's like, I mean, in certain areas in Europe, like, I mean, you're not even all areas of Spain, but certain areas of Spain, certain areas of Italy, it's almost like baseball. Like, like you go, you go after school and just go ride in the local track for two hours while your dad sits there and then you go home and then, you go like with a coach for two hours. It's just the same as baseball. mean, the KSP, like it's now called Aspar circuit, but like I used to go there and train and

A dozen guys from Moto two and Moto three would train there with me or modern guys and like guys who I race with like like Alonzo. He and I were in 85 together and he and I would go to like I would always see him at KSB with when I would go there and he's there all the time training all the day. Now it's Aspar circuit and he rides that R6 there, but it's a lot. It's a lack of opportunity. A lot of development. What like

Matt Dill has like with OvalA USA like he's he's done wonders like fixing apex and making it a lot more accessible when you see a lot more young guys coming out just be like hey what is this like how do I how do I get into it that's that's cool

Yeah, that is cool. Yeah. so it is a, it is definitely a topic because we, had, you know, the, had, such great writers, you know, the, think the last, obviously Ben Spears is probably the last last one that really broke through that.

Like over time the dynamic tiff is back in the day. It was flat track like flat track like you had got like there wasn't like back in the 80s and 90s and I don't know about the 90s or whatever, but there weren't a lot of track days available. Like you couldn't go. You couldn't go just like ride a ton of track days for three or four or five, six years. And there wasn't many racing like there maybe was early supermoto. That's for adults on 450s or whatever. Well, the two for two, two strokes at that point, I guess there's like basic supermoto.

Speaker 1 (41:40.472)
But there's no, there's no like development for kids. So like you have a guy who grows up racing flat tracks since he was 12 years old on this or five years old on his dad's backyard. And they get so much more like hours on like a motorcycle and they build up, build up, build up, build up. And then, then they go race GP because they have, they've only been road racing for two years, three years, maybe they're going to destroy somebody who's been road racing for five or six years because they, have so much more track time and.

They've been racing flat tracking in the U S against the best in the world back in, I mean, this is Tom talking like the early guys, but then you start to see like the rise of you, of like younger guys starting to do pocket bikes and Rossi was, was a big, a big one in that 90s in Italy was kind of where that got its biggest start, like big kickoff. So have the like national pocket bike series. So you have riders on road racing, starting early on road race. They starting early on flat track is better than starting late in road racing, starting early in road race, infinitely better in my opinion than starting late.

early in flat track because there are skills that you build over time in road racing that you just would not get out in flat track because they're completely different. Like in flat track you, I mean, you don't use the front brake nearly as much as road race. You don't mess with the suspension and everything is kind of used in different ways. This is

Hmm you say you mean the valley valley Yeah, okay, okay

No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (43:00.398)
Like way smaller, no gears, about half as nice and all that.

Okay, I'm not familiar with that because I've heard that a lot of Yeah, I'd to see them I've had a lot of grown-up races actually practice on a balance like actually it's actually good for training But I don't know. Maybe that's like some kind of folklore or something, you know

to try to find some photos.

Speaker 1 (43:21.902)
It's yeah, they're they're fun for me I struggle because they're very rigid and stiff and I'm a bit like um, if you're under like five eight or five nine like you're gonna be really good on us like a voice and really it gets harder at the end of getting cramped when you get a bit bigger like you see a ton of big guys making it work It's just all up to you writing style. Like I love of all is and I think they're sick

You know, Misty Hearst, who's one of the Kelly school teachers who I'm sure, you know, one of my favorite people, who's sons doing that. She's training a son is son's thing pretty well, actually in Canada, try to get them down to some racing. think he's like 13 or something. so, okay. So I mean, the talent is just the development is just not here. Europe's got just much more of a pastime attitude towards the sports. So get all of that, know, telling dad's drinking his cappuccino, watching his son on the track. Yeah.

Tracks like they have big facilities, like they have pools, like big, big swing pools for the other kids, like for the other siblings to go play and chill and enjoy themselves. And so they're not bored. It's like, I mean, if you go to Marc Marquez or if you go to Catalonia, like Marc Marquez, he's the same as my homes would be in Kansas City. Like, he's a superstar. Like people wear messy jerseys or they used to when I was there with FC Barcelona, people wear messy jerseys and they wear Marc Marquez t-shirts. That's it.

There's only two sports when they support like, mean, even like you see like old, like older, less less like you see Crivia t-shirts all the time and you'd see Lorenzo t-shirts all the time. It's such a big part of the culture in Italy. Not quite as much as Spain from what I observed, but like, like the daily news shows the results from qualifying or the race in GP and they show a quick highlights, like just like our version of like, I guess like Fox News or CNN or MSNBC and whatnot, like

they show like racing highlights on TV, like whatever the daily news stays. So like not always, but like, it was, it's bonkers. I mean, it's just part of their culture and it's like where it's just not here.

Speaker 2 (45:20.128)
know, it's, it's interesting because it's, it might sound like an odd parallel, but, you know, New Zealand, depending on the year are usually number one in the world and rugby up and down rugby is the world's. Yeah. But like, yeah. Right. But in America, there's such amazing, talented sports people, but you never see any, any fucking rugby anywhere. Like we've got it. We've got, there is a stocker. Yeah. Right. So it's kind of similar with, with racing. And I want to make sure I'm respectful of your time though, as well here.

Yeah

Speaker 1 (45:42.361)
Really?

Speaker 2 (45:49.662)
so this has been a good sort of fleet throwing discussion and it's interesting. The next question, because you're still super young and, and it's going to be weird one, but like, would you have advice for young writers that want the dream of getting into the sport in the U S given the challenges we have? obviously there's a lot of variables, but like what would the core question for me here is if you're young and you want to go to the track, did you just turn up and send it or should you get coaching from day one?

That's kind of what I want to understand, but more.

Like if you're if you're a little kid like a little kid like a properly little kid like five or six like there's only so much they're gonna be able to absorb it doesn't matter how how aggressive you are with teaching or how just how your coaching style is like there's only so much a little kids gonna be able to absorb and they're not gonna be able like they're there I mean they're a kid they're they're five years out the damn womb like they don't they don't have life experience they don't they haven't even really been to school at that point so they haven't they don't have any experience learning new things so like you can teach

basic things like like my dad kind of let me just like he was like okay rocko i don't want you to build any bad habits like you need to you just need to like kind of in beginning just like use from use all the track or try not to try to relax your arms like that basic simple things and that like even then at my age like like you have no idea what this concept mean like like you just don't know because you're a kid like i would say to any like i wish i could tell myself this like i if you asked me a year ago i would

I wouldn't probably say anything like, just don't take things too seriously. mean, we're having fun. We're racing bikes and to like, save your dad's like, just don't take things too seriously. Have fun. Do your thing. Just like, it doesn't matter if you're not there now. Like look where I was at the beginning of the year in baggers. Like I was, I was like two and a half seconds off most of the time. And at the end I'd won a couple races. It just took like learning. Like it's not about how hard you're riding or about how much you know. It's just about learning a few little basic things and maybe tweaking a few things that you maybe hadn't thought of before.

Speaker 1 (47:45.378)
And that can find like you find so much time because like like a second on a second or two seconds on a 20 turn like I was two seconds off at coda and it's a 20 turn track. That's about a 10th of corner. Like that's not much like you can find a 10th pretty easily if you just tweak it, if you know kind of what to tweak and

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, I feel like having a whole hour with you just on writing skills because yeah, I mean, I've been trying to break down, you know, every corner, you know, and there are some corners. Let's just talk about, let's talk about a couple of racetracks. So like at the Ridge, you might know there's eight A and eight B is like a kind of a double apex. So Josh, it's a lot of people. What I'm curious about is your

Just don't take it too seriously.

Speaker 1 (48:25.326)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:31.096)
goal in life, this is going to sound really simple, to always be hitting the apex, every single apex because, okay. No. No. Tell me about that. Why?

because sometimes it's a waste of time to hit like a, you have to over slow or like hitting both apexes and a double apex could hypothetically like there, like I choose to generally avoid the first apex because if you let the thing run out, like no one's going to be able to break where you're breaking. If you let the thing kind of run out and move it a little bit or avoid it or go a little bit wider and you have a much better angle to accelerate coming up the hill. And right. It's a

But we like like I mean you don't need like yeah I mean the majority of time hit your apexes especially like like I'll say this in every corner at some point if you're not just like full gas you should be able to you should be hitting one of the apexes

You know, if I ask, obviously the California Superbike School, Yamaha Champs School, you choose your favorite school. I think all the schools are really good by the way. don't think there's any bad one. just have... Superbike I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (49:35.758)
registered by school is the best by far. There is no competition, trust me.

That's how I feel about it too.

The depth understanding of the techniques is what is the different and is the difference between the street by school and some of the other ones like like and the amount of like rigorous training that goes into the coaches like the coach it takes like many months to become a coach. It doesn't matter. I like it was like like you don't you're not just some track. You're not getting coached by some track day guy who has like a basic grasp of using all the track like you're you're you're you're like maybe some people will call some of the techniques whatever like I choose. I personally believe that majority of them that I've ever I've never found one that like

directly doesn't work. It might be slightly different than something that I'm doing, but like oftentimes, like I went into the super bike school at Laguna, like right before Kota. I like, I mean, I've been racing for at this point, I'm about 15 years. This is my 15th season or my 16th season actually. our 15th, I'm terrible at math. I, I, it's 15 years. But like I go there and I like, still learn like, like John Groom and I, like we had a huge breakthrough on,

Apex is like like on how like different rates of turning in and I'm like and my co-ed Stephen self was in my on track coach and it was it was great like like you you Every single time like you just can't have an ego. You're there to learn you're not there to you're not there to prove a point You were all on the same bikes. We're all just goofing off We all have different experiences and sometimes I will say sometimes we do have people who are like that and they're The laughing stock like you're here to learn and you're like people are paying a lot of money to come learn That's why the rules are so strict. That's why you

Speaker 1 (51:07.768)
don't break for the first half of the first day or the first few sessions. It's all about refined technique. It's not about anything else.

hear that. like, I'm with you. Like I took about like, you're gonna be a you're gonna learn it all or a nodal. And if you're a learned or go to a school and what I find interesting is that Keith invented the category of on track training for mortals like me, I turn up and have everything provided he invented the whole category. And reality is we're still talking about physics, a bike is a gyroscope. There's this there are so many things you can do. But the human on top is usually the problem, right? And so like that's you got to fix the human on top of a gyroscope and

I've done 50 days of them, so I'm a big fan. I've done other schools which I... Yeah, here's the thing. reason I asked you the apex question, it's interesting you talk about rate of... Around the rate of the turn rate because Dylan Code was chasing me on the track last year. He came up and he said, dude, you're so slow. Your turn rate is so slow. You're going to be way... Yeah, he was like, why is he slow?

Thanks.

Speaker 1 (52:09.262)
Mine was very abrupt.

But they also push on apexes like you got to every frickin apex of a track. so, so, yeah, I'll tell the guy, I'll tell Johnny that, that, that, I don't have to hit. I didn't have to hit every API.

would say you should hit about 90, 90, to 90, probably 6 or 7 % of the apexes. Like I'm talking like the only ones that you don't want to hit are like the first in some double apex.

Okay, okay.

Like I would say at first, like you can skip the first, you get away with skipping the first and like a and some like super long corners, like technically I guess the bullet chuck walla could be considered a double apex, but you enter why and you just carry it and use late apex. Like you're always hitting an apex, like in every single corner, unless you're like just tapped even then, like even even then like it's still going to be, you're still going to be using less, less actual distance. If you, if you like use the apex you're using, you're using the

Speaker 1 (53:07.0)
Karmak that's available to you without having to kind of steer around and use more use more like physical distance. So that's all that apex using the apex does is it it adds like distance or adds with the track, which allows you to open the throttle sooner. Like if you're missing your apex is your you're giving up like it's but you can pretend the track is this much or this much or however much more narrow and on a more narrow track, you can't accelerate as hard because you don't have as much distance actually using the exit. So

In every corner, you should be at least hitting an apex like in a certain double apexes. You shouldn't because perhaps you can get in deeper if you don't or maybe you have to over slow and overturn to get to where you can make the first apex with the second apex and the double apex is by far the most important one. And like at the point you were talking about at the ridge, like I was kind of bypassing the first apex and missing it by a few feet, but I was rolling over the inside curb on the second one. So I was very

You to a good sit up?

Yeah, was a very aggressive hook of a turn and I'd get the thing pointed and just accelerate over the inside curb.

helpful. As Fannie mentioned the bowl at Chuck Willoughby because when we interviewed James Toohey a few weeks ago, he was talking about that exact corner. James Toohey as you know, James. So the other reason I bring this

Speaker 1 (54:20.59)
He was so he was my main coach from when I was like starting at like age 13 or 14

Well, he's done, as you know, for listeners, he's done over 500,000 miles of just track time, just on the track. Don't forget, just...

fast, and properly fast and he's a guy that doesn't drag his knee all the time and like it's interesting watching these guys who are really fast and so another reason that this is so great, so sometimes I'll see these young guys and they're really fast actually some of them but they miss almost every apex and they get off the bike after two sessions, I'm done for the day man, I'm so tired and I'm like old fat man, I'm old fat man and I'm I'm relaxed on the bars, I'm not like this.

and I'm actually hitting most of my apexes and I'm not tired. Is there a thing about like riding fast but not online that tires you up faster? Cause you're doing too much.

talking like like like customer or students at the school where they where they are like just naturally pretty good well I would say a lot of

Speaker 2 (55:20.512)
someone at a track day like they're really fast but they're letting the bike ride them they're not really riding the bike so you know what mean like they're fast but they miss every their lines of shit but they're still fast like it's

I mean, it's probably a combination between them probably having done years of track days on like bikes where they're in there. Like, okay, my goal is to go fast, but they've had no little or no formal training and they don't know what kind of where they're going, what they're doing. Obviously coaching is not everything. Like you have to be able to do things yourself. But if you're overriding the thing and trying to try to

Make it naked do things it's not meant to do or and not doing it those things properly like you're gonna tire yourself out also you with your experience like you you've done so many days on the track that your bike your body's like you've built the fitness up like you've built the specific muscle groups like My one of my good friends a pro hockey player like we were we'll go we'll go skating and i'll i'm just like my legs are dead in about two minutes, but he can go

Full NHL game and be good and he and I can but he and I'll go to a track day and I can do a key and I did an endurance race last year for fun and but we can do an endurance race and he'll do 20 minutes and he just comes in and he's just beat because he's not used to it like he like first off hockey is a sprinting sport with the cardio sport. It's like the muscle groups have just not been worked. It ends up make to where you're overcompetitive like his rate. Rotorizing should be about 90 percent legs when it comes like hanging. The only thing you should do with your arms really is a throttle and steering. And even then it should be kind of. Yeah.

But like he'll you'll end up like when you start getting tired, you kind of tense up, you overcompensate. And that's what leads to arm pump as it leads to tucking the front on corner entry because the the tensor your arms like like most people, if you just like if like if you just relax and try to use your legs more to hang on to the bike, like you're going to be good. And it's not hard. To basically like physically, it's not hard, but it's like you have to kind of get your arm, get your head around it. It's like the wheel is always doing this. And if you're super, if you're super

Speaker 2 (57:04.834)
really good nugget.

Speaker 1 (57:16.302)
aggressive on the bars, it doesn't allow it to come back. So it ends up getting around and tuck a little bit. That's what we like. That's what leads to most most like most front end. Obviously, sometimes it's just like unavoidable, like you're leaned over too far and there's just no grip and you've destroyed your tire. But like the majority of them, I would say, can be attributed least partially on that. But yeah, I do private coaching. I've never coached at this school. I haven't done the training to become a coach of the school yet. I want to. really want to.

Well, have you ever coached have

Speaker 2 (57:42.742)
Yeah, yeah, because you know, like I've got nothing against the other schools. But like the know, the Yamaha Champs school, most of the coaches are racers or x racers. And that's cool game different perspective. Yeah. I'm a fan of the Cali school. That's my main school, just to be clear. But but you know, I do the others and there are some that I really like. But you know, I Kayla Yakov, there's some coaching I was, I gonna I booked a day with her last year, but she had to cancel it. Unfortunately.

so I'd love to get some coaching from you if you're ever up at the ridge. but, man, I want to be respectfully your time. we've had a, we've had such a good chat. tell me a little bit about the supporters in your life, that your sponsors, how people can get hold of you if they want to be involved with you, as a racer, if they want, you know, they want you, they want to be on your helmet or whatever they want. Like, how can people support your racing career? Cause you're so early in it. And I want folks who better help contribute.

Yeah, well, mean, for my for people who want to reach out and reach out to my manager, either message me on Instagram, it's at Jake Zimke or Jake at Team Wasse. Jake at Team Wasse. I can't remember exactly his email. I have to look it up. It's in his Instagram bio, but he's my manager. So he's your guy if you want to get involved at all. But I mean, right now I've been I all my sponsors. got Street Bike School. got Manson Hines, Harley Davidson.

Revzilla, Motul, Mission Chips, and uh, HJC, Foosport, Revit. I'm gonna, someone's gonna, somebody's gonna get angry at me. I'm so bad at running off the top of my head.

I had I had zep courts on the podcast couple weeks ago

Speaker 1 (59:21.174)
Nice. Yeah, I went to their little films video. We went to Pittsburgh, went to Jersey for the race with the Philly and checked out their little area. That's like a journalist like I got like a different respect for journalists than I have for most people because they're like, I mean, they've they've rid a lot of bikes and a lot of tracks and a lot of different situations and they have like experience like proper journalists are going to destroy any almost any track day guy or club or even club racer.

Yeah, there's some really fast guys out there, man. There's so many things, other things I want to ask you, but I'm to ask you off camera. look, it's been, it's really great having on the podcast. We've had a lot of different folks from a lot of different industries, you know, not just races, but, you know, from the companies, the brands, et cetera. and, man, good luck in, what is still a really early stage in your career, dude. And, thanks for sending the record straight on a few things as well. think I'm glad that you,

push the importance of learning and coaching, but it's not all about the coach. It's great to hear.

Or the bike, like get on a small bike when you first start. If you're like, I'm not going to discourage you from taking the thousand you've had for five years that you've ridden on the street to the track, but don't go buy an R1 as your first. Like, like get on something smaller, a twin or a 400. Like they're cheap. They're fun. Like what's an analogy I could use? Like, I don't know. Like I'm trying to think, like if you're first learning to drive, would you rather jump into like a hyper car or a Honda Civic? I mean, it's going to be.

I guess that's the direct analogy, I guess, but it's you learn more. The things are more apparent. Like you like you can go harder sooner and use like more of what the bike has to offer. And that's to me is more fun than just winding the thing up on the straight and annoying the hell out of every other small bike rider. Do you hold them up in the corner?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08.59)
Even at your level, mean, even at your level, there's very few riders that take the bike to its absolute limit, right? So, maybe there are, but the Track Day, for sure not. I turned up at a Track Day, my first Track Day on a Panigale V4, fucking big mistake, and I sold it the following week. And now I have a V2 Panigale as well, but that's the bike I take.

But I respect that's a bike that needs a lot of respect. Like I feel like I only take it out when I feel like I'm like it's one of those bikes that bites you hard if you fuck it up on it like it's

They're super torquey and it's basically a hot super power 600

Right, but my iris 660 is like, have a trophy. it's a dream. Anyone you've read the trophy? dude. It's like

Twins in general like are would be the best track day bikes for anyone of any skill level in my opinion like I prefer a thousand myself, but

Speaker 2 (01:02:01.836)
that note we'll finish because I think I agree with you it's super super good advice and thanks for joining Rocco stay online for me