40 Years of MotoGP Stories: An Exclusive Interview with Mat Oxley!

In this special episode, I sit down with legendary MotoGP journalist and former Isle of Man TT winner, Mat Oxley. Over the past 40 years, Mat has worked with and written about some of the biggest names in motorcycle racing—from Kenny Roberts and Barry Sheene to Valentino Rossi and Marc Márquez.

In this interview, Mat shares incredible behind-the-scenes stories, insights into the evolution of MotoGP, and what it’s like to race (and win) the iconic Isle of Man TT. Whether you’re a die-hard racing fan or just curious about the legends of the track, this conversation is packed with must-hear moments.

Make sure to check out Mat’s amazing work and follow him for more MotoGP insights:
📘 Website: matoxley.com
🐦 Twitter: @matoxley
📚 Books: Mat Oxley's Books
🎧 Podcast: Oxley Bom MotoGP Podcast
📝 Articles: Motor Sport Magazine

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more interviews with legends of the motorcycle world!

#MotoGP #MatOxley #ValentinoRossi #KennyRoberts #MotorcycleRacing #IsleOfManTT #MotoGPLegends #MotorcycleStories #RacingHistory #TwoWheelsForever #stealingspeed

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Matt Oxley
• 6:09 Racing Beginnings and the Isle of Man Experience
• 11:59 Transitioning from Racing to Journalism
• 18:13 The Impact of Family on Racing Mindset
• 26:05 Cultural Differences in Racing Personalities
• 31:57 The Journey of Aspiring Riders
• 39:39 "Muddling Through Life": Insights from Mat Oxley
• 48:14 Rossi and the Isle of Man TT: A Unique Experience
• 56:37 Mat Oxley's Literary Journey: Books and Stories

Transcript

Angus Norton (00:05.218)
Well, good day, everyone. It's my pleasure today to introduce you to Matt Oxley. Now, Matt is a legend in the world of motorcycle racing journalism and especially MotoGP racing. Matt has been a journalist for almost 40 years covering all elements of motorcycle racing. Not only that,

Matt is also a former I Love Man TT winner and has raced competitively throughout much of his career before moving into the world of journalism.

But there's more. Matt also wrote the incredibly popular book, Stealing Speed, which is an incredible book that documents the birth of the Japanese obsession and flawless execution in the world of motorcycle racing. And it documents how all that kind of came to be in the post World War II period. And it's a

wonderful history book. It's a wonderful story and it's one of many books that Matt has written over the years. Matt is also a host of the Oxley Bloom podcast, which is also very popular and something that I listen to every time a new episode comes out. So it's my distinct pleasure to introduce Matt to you all.

I hope you enjoy it. He's got some great stories to tell. So let's get on with it.

Angus Norton (01:56.129)
I was recording. It is now. was just counting down as you were doing that. You're a pro, see? You've done it before. Well, it's a great way to introduce a podcast is to have someone that has done a few podcasts as our guest today. And Matt is not just a journalist and a podcast host. He's a racer, ex-racer, probably still likes to thinking racist from time to time, like old guys like me do as well. But it's a real honor to introduce Matt Oxley to you. Now I just did an intro, so I won't go through the intro again.

But Matt, welcome to the podcast and thanks for making the time in your off season because I know it's a busy time soon. Thanks Angus. The honor is all mine really. I'm just a lonely journalist scribbler. I like the way you said that when we were trading emails because some of the journalists that I've spoken to aren't used to being asked about who they are. They're used to asking other people.

while this podcast and a lot of the YouTube content I've built, you know, I've only been doing this for just under a year. So it's been a bit of a learning is focused on really helping people at all levels of motorcycling, whether it be racing on the streets, learn nuggets about not just the history, but skills and what you can learn from others about writing. And I don't just interview people that are maybe very well known in the community like yourself.

But also to view people that aren't so well known, but actually really good at what they do on the track or whatever it may mean. So thanks for coming. And there's so much to talk about. But Matt, don't think I need to introduce you, but if you'd like to introduce yourself, you're most welcome to. Right. Okay. Well, I'm a modus jippee journalist. I have been for 38 years, which is insane.

I thought I'd be dead by now. I can remember telling people in my 40s, if I'm still doing this when I'm 50, please shoot me. And now I'm like in my mid 60s and still doing the same job. But you you got the best job in the world. Why would you change? So yeah, my brother's a journalist. And I used to race as well, you know, my whole adult life in motorcycles, basically, from 17 when I got the bug till I'm now 65. So that's basically 50 years, riding bikes, then racing.

Angus Norton (04:17.709)
starting racing, then getting a job as a journalist and blah, blah, blah. Here I am. Well, I love, love, I love how humble you are about that. And it is funny how time flies. And, know, I was curious as I was thinking about you and, um, you know, I reread your book again for the third time, actually I was in Palm Springs the last week reading it in front of the pool. Um, which we'll get into this in a moment, but, um, I'm curious, like, what was the spark?

you do you like your earliest memory of motorcycles? Okay, was there a person or a moment that that hit you or? Very strict. I mean, you know, the whole thing's been muddling through basically, and just random, organic kind of, you know, process basically. When I was a teenager, we lived out in the country. And my brother wanted to go to college, and he couldn't get there by bus or whatever.

So he bought a little Honda CB 125 and, you know, got completely swept away like, like you do, especially in those times in the seventies when the road was something special. You were free and you could do pretty much what you like really, as long as you had enough speed to get away from the cops. So he, so he got a bike and, fell under the spell and I saw him fall under the spell and straight away wanted to motorbike myself. And when I was 17, got a

same little thing CB125 100 quid and that was it basically I was I was sold that was that was me and I'm still I mean it just blow my mind well it doesn't blow my mind I just think wow how can I still be under the spell 50 years later but I am you know that's just you know it's just been yeah being completely consumed by motorbikes and by motorbike racing basically and all those things that they brought me basically yeah

That's great and did that love of sort of two wheels Expand to bicycles as well. Was it anything on two wheels or no, okay way too lazy I Mean I had a bicycle before I think when I was 13 14 I've got a bicycle and obviously loved Riding a bicycle around the countryside, but then you've got a motorbike like wow, know Why would you need a bicycle after you've got a motorbike really? so no, I mean, I do ride a bicycle on the on the roads in London now, but

Angus Norton (06:41.837)
You they mean nothing to me. You've got to have an engine really. Not on a little electric motor, you've got to have an engine. Yes, I love that. I'm with you on that. It's a certainly interesting time, the convergence. So you're not shaving your legs like a laser sparrow then? No, no. I'm lazy, basically. I mean, you know, I keep fit and stuff, but I'm pretty lazy, really. you know, yeah. Fair enough.

And you said your first bike you said was a Honda CB125? CB125S, green, sort of puke green basically, tiny little drum brake. The drum brake on the front wheel was about literally that big. Yeah. Does about 70 miles an hour, which in in in in Kiwi numbers is what like 110 K something like that 100. Yeah. But you know, it's your first motorbike, was like 10 horsepower.

your first motorbike you think it's you know you can't get anything faster than that really and then obviously yeah you just go up and up and up you know my brother started racing about the time a little bit after I got my first bike and and then yeah I was like straight away I want to do that I want to do that you know and it so it was just a kind of random organic thing always has been really no plan no plan whatsoever ever

And what part of England are you from? So when I first got a bike we were living in Hampshire, kind of southwest of London, beautiful country, quite boring. basically me and my brother learned to race around the country lanes of Hampshire basically and just going insane.

You get your bike, your brother's got a bike, got mates that have got bikes and then, it just kind of goes from there. And we would literally race around, race each other around the roads. mean, mental really, and quite quickly realized that we were either going to die or lose our licenses if we carried on the way we were, you know, hence the desire to go racing, not because we wanted to do anything or go anywhere with the racing, just because

Angus Norton (09:00.685)
We wanted somewhere where we could ride and do stupid things and be praised for it rather than put in prison for it. Yeah. It's funny. It's a shockingly similar story to mine. During the whole mod revival in the 1980s. So my first motorcycle was a Vespa. Mine was actually,

a 160 GS, which at the time is a very rare bike, but we we used to put I loved your I loved going reminiscing on two strokes reading this because the stuff we used to do on Vespas and racing them around New Zealand, you know, stripping them down, putting expansions, chambers on them. And like you, we actually ended up racing them. And that's how I kind of got into track. But my first proper motorcycle was a CB 500. But yeah, so similar story. We feel like we're invincible, right? Yeah.

Yeah, you just kind of...

You don't almost seem in control of yourself. You just kind of swept along on this tidal wave of, of, of, of wanting to ride bikes, wanting to race bikes, wanting to do this without a thought about where it's taking you or why, or what, or when, or how, but you just make it happen. And, know, I w we were completely skinned, both of us, you know, had shitty little RD three fifties or RD four hundreds when we started, you know, we'd rent a transit van for transit, go to the races.

Me and my brother and usually find another mate who lived in the area, three RDs in the back of the van, sleep in the back of the van in your sleeping bags. know, I mean, just could not get more basic than how we started racing really. It's funny because that's what I do today as a 53 year old. I have a Ford Transit van and I sleep at the track in the back of the van. There's a hotel near the track, but I really like waking up at the track.

Angus Norton (10:58.193)
That's pretty funny to hear you say that. And the thing that I'm really curious about with you is that obviously you're a fantastic writer, if you mind me saying, your writing is great. You're obviously a journalist. But there's a little race that some people might have heard of called the Isle of Man, which has been around a while and is pretty famous. Tell me about your experience there, because I think you had some success there, right?

Yeah, I can't. So I started racing in like a million years ago. Sounds ridiculous. 1979. And that just, you know, start off as a laugh. And then, you know, you just get sucked into that as well. And off you go again down another kind of roller coaster ride. And you get sucked in and you start spending all your money and you sell your RD 400 and buy a brand new RD 250 LC that you've told your bank manager you're buying to go to work on and

And then you start racing that and then you start getting some good results and you know, and then that just snowballs from there. And so I started racing as 79 and got my first job as a journalist in 1981. yeah, so and then I got laid off by a couple of jobs. It was the early 80s in Britain, which was, you know, financial nightmare. Everything was going bust. And then in 83, 84.

end of 83 I got a job with motorcycle news, is like the big weekly newspaper and you know, which then was huge selling 150,000 copies a week, all that kind of stuff. And in 84, they sponsored the Isle of Man production TT, which hadn't been hadn't been a production TT for like 1012 years. That was road bikes and I was the road tester MCN. So the editor said to me, do you want to do the production TT? You know,

And I was like, well, no, because the TTS deadly, you know, my two biggest heroes when I was a teenager, wasn't Barry Sheen. was Pat Hennan, American guy who was, whose career was ended at the 78 TT by a big crash and Tom Herron, who was killed at Northwest 200, which is a kind of Irish version of the TT on public roads. So I was quite anti racing on public roads and I was still quite young and crashing a lot. I thought, I don't want to do that.

Angus Norton (13:20.941)
And then I kind of worked out that all I had to do for the two weeks over there was write one story about doing the race. So I was like, wow, I'm up for that. Basically it's going to be a holiday. That's how I looked at it. Went over there. So I've got a Suzuki RG250, the parallel twin. First RG250, beautiful little thing. Went over there, rode around on the road and just thought, whoa, this is terrifying. When you're riding around on the road.

you kind of see all the stuff right that you can hit when you crash and you think this is insane. I'm not going to do this. So I decided I would do one lap of practice, pull in and say, look, thanks for all the free bike and free tires, all this stuff. But this isn't for me, I'm not going to do it. And that was genuinely what I was going to do. And the first practice session was an early morning practice session starts at 430 in the morning. Mental because they have them that early in the morning in midsummer, so they try not to

mess up the morning rush hour in the Isle of Man if you want. So you're all done by seven o'clock and then everybody can go to work. So I went out there so I'm going to pull in after a lap. And like, my god, it was the best thing I've ever done. You know, it was all racing around the streets of Hampshire, but no cops, no cars come the other way, all those things. And I was like, I'm in heaven. I'm in complete hell. So then that was another thing that just happened by chance almost randomly.

And off I went and I I'm just adored that for four or five or six years before I kind of the penny dropped. And I thought, you know what, I've nearly killed myself enough. I'm going to stop doing this. So I did it for five years. I think it was great. Yeah, I loved it until I did. that's interesting. So yeah, it's interesting. You took up the parallels between riding around the country lanes and the aisle of man or even any sort of road.

road race off the track, of course, that there's parallels. I can definitely see that because you look at the amount of POMs that have won and done really well in the Isle of Man all come from probably those same sort of backgrounds, right? Exactly. If you want to make it MotoGP or even World Superbike or whatever now, you kind of have to start racing when you're five years old. Basically, unless your dad or mum gives you a mini Moto, you're not going to make it. You can't start racing at

Angus Norton (15:44.685)
12, 15, 20 and make it into MotoGP, no way. But I don't really know about a lot of current TT riders, but I think it's a very different vibe. It's a different way of riding. It's not like riding on the road, but you are riding on the road. mean, it's completely different. One of the things you work out when you start racing very quickly, even when you're not that fast, is that racing on the road is in

Completely another world from riding riding on the road. sorry racing in general is a completely another world You think you're going fast when you're being a maniac on the road, but you're not Yeah, you you you know when you go racing if you want to improve your road riding the best thing to do is go rate racing because you will You know, you will explore limits that you would never do on the road and you become a much better road road rider, but racing Yeah, so I'd race for like three four years when I went to the TT

So you're bringing all that experience and the fact I suppose I was pretty young and fairly fearless at that time. You know, like I say, once you're doing racing speeds around the TT, you don't see all the walls and stuff because you're too busy looking at the road in front of you. So you're not looking at all the stuff you can crash into. So suddenly it becomes all right, you know, it's weird, weird. you know, there's so much to unpack there around sort of the fearlessness. But before I get to that,

Now you did the MCN almost by accident, the Isle of Man, but then you won it the second time you tried. Yeah. Yeah. So the second year I had a Suzuki RG the first year and I did pretty well. I did finish third, I think my first year and second year I got a Honda NS 250, which was like the go thing. They imported like eight or nine of them into Britain because prodi racing was becoming, that was how you sold bikes. You know, in the eighties kind of once the eighties recession had gone, there was this big boom.

And that was the start of real super sports bikes, mid 80s. You had all these little 250s, know, GPZ 750s, all this kind of stuff. And then the GSXR 750, the RG 500. So it was a real period of change in motorbikes. So suddenly all these people were throwing bikes at you, like, I'll this, have that, have that. So there were eight or nine of us on these Hondas. Yeah. And I won it the second year, that record, blah, blah.

Angus Norton (18:05.143)
And I always wanted to race something quite slow at the TT for obvious reasons. and also road bikes as well. So they're pretty much indestructible. You're racing a grand prix bike around the TT. It's kind of magnesium race wheels aren't really built to be jumped off bridges at a hundred miles an hour. They're not built for that, you know? So I didn't want to ride something that was going to break, you know, at a hundred miles an hour or whatever. yeah. And I just adored it for three or four years.

absolutely adored it. It just seemed to come pretty naturally really. must have given you even more, you mentioned these modern bikes, regardless of their track oriented or not, the sensitivity of them as the technology gets better and better. It must have given you a massive amount of appreciation for what guys like Kaden did and the guys you talk about in your book.

and what they were doing. I just learned so much about the evolution of a two-stroke through that book. And I was just trying to imagine just what that must have been like. And you talked about fearlessness and I'm curious, you know, I've been, I rode around the world like for 30 years, literally did a million miles of touring on the track, on the street. Thought I was a pretty good rider. The four continents, turned up at the track for the first time, other than Vespa stuff in the eighties on a real bike. Six years ago,

and realized that I'd been writing the wrong way for 30 years. Yeah, then very quickly progressed to like, I'm like mid pack in the A group now, right? And old guy, I actually have a little RS 660, which I love, but I have a Panigale B2 as well. But when I had started a family, I started a family late. All of a sudden my risk factor went way down and I just don't do, like, do you find like that fearlessness with writers in the pro world as well?

they start families that they start being slower or that always used to be a thing. When I wrote for this endurance team after the well when I was doing the TT as well, you know, if I had a girlfriend, the team manager were kind of like, that's a second a lap slower you, you ask, you know, and I kind of, I do get that you you know, you, you as a human being, you're constantly changing, right?

Angus Norton (20:29.013)
And when I was young, I didn't really care. You if I died, I didn't really care. I didn't want to be, know, in a wheelchair or head injuries. Those were only things that scared me. Anything else was fine. You know, if you're smashed up with broken legs and stuff, no problem. You'll get over it. If you're dead, no problem. You're dead. But then, you know, as you get a bit older, certainly with me, not everyone, you know, I began to think when I started doing all right and having some success and being able to buy stuff and so on and

you and then having a nice girlfriend and a nice whatever nice life, basically, you'd suddenly think, Oh, I don't want to die. You know what I mean? And that changes. wasn't, mean, I'd stopped racing years before I had kids. So that doesn't really fit with that. That doesn't really sort of fit with me, but definitely my willingness to take risks. You know, it went kind of like down like that. And the time when I raised from 79 to 1990, well,

Guinea in 91 actually. the 89 Alamante T out of Yamaha reverse cylinder TZR and there were two or three others of them. And after one morning practice session, you'd come back at seven in the morning, do your morning practice. and you'd go for a full, full English in Douglas, you know, with your mates or your mechanics or whatever. And we were sat there having breakfast and it came on Manx radio. This guy, man, I've forgotten his name. I'm ashamed to say, I knew him. He riding the same bike as I had been killed in that.

practice session. And that was kind of basically the end for me, you know, not only the TT that was the last time I did the TT because five people were killed that year, including this guy. And after that every morning of every race, this weird how these things get into your head. the morning of every race that feeling of being having breakfast that time and I hearing about that came back to me. And you know, once that sort of stuff is infiltrating your mind, it's game over. But

know, with the current with the professional riders, I was never a professional rider. I was always a holiday racer. Basically, I was a journalist and then racing on my holidays. But these pros nowadays, they just seem to be able to go through anything and carry on. mean, you know, all kinds of injuries and they just carry on because it's a very special mindset. I you think of something like Valentino Rossi and Colin Edwards when when they were involved in Marco Simoncelli's

Angus Norton (22:53.869)
fatal crash. exactly. you go. You know, Simocelli was one of Rossi's best mates. And you know, how could you carry on racing after, you know, it to put it in a basically, well, being involved in your best mate's death, basically. How do you carry on? I don't know, I couldn't have done it. But he could, know, and that's, it takes a very

And I think a lot of people don't understand that it takes an incredibly strong mentality to be able to block that stuff out. Or like Mark Marquez, for example, have four years basically screwed through your arm injury, have multiple operations, the last one involving it being cut completely in half through your humerus bone and sticking it back together and carrying on. mean, just can't get my head around that. can't. I know that I would have given up years before. Yeah, not this. I've got

20 I've got 50 million the bank that will do me I'm off. See you later. Bye. Yeah, that's a great match really interest. That's really good insight because later on in the discussion want to talk a little about some of the greats that you've seen, because it's always such a debate. You know, the greats and the goat term which I want to get to later. But um, I know you also did endurance racing, I did a 24 hour endurance race, which again is kind of off the track and speaks to your background a little bit there. What

Was that through NCN as well? Or was that as a privateer? No, that again, kind of random really. When I moved to London to get my first job as a motorbike journalist in 81, got through friends at racetracks, I moved in with this house full of maniacs in West London. Howard Lees, Dave Chisman and Linda Griffiths and Howard and Dave race bikes and I race bikes. It was just this kind of mental house. We're always getting into trouble with the night.

with the neighbors and stuff from the street trying to get together to throw us out and all that kind of stuff. But the young ones. Yeah, exactly. Young ones with engines basically. And Howard was an amazing sort of racing person. He kind of established this endurance team and said, do you want to race for it? And I by that time, this was 83, I'd realized that I was hopeless at building bikes, mechanic, in doing anything, organizing anything hopeless. So

Angus Norton (25:19.085)
there was a ride that I could just turn up and ride, you know, I didn't have to pay for anything. Didn't have to do anything. I was just a rider. And so that suited me. so yeah, I raced endurance from 83 to 1991. And, and looking back, kind of only after I'd stopped racing was I like, wow. So the main things I did was endurance and TT, which are both real adventures, right? Every lap of the TT is an adventure. It's not right, right. Riding around Silverstone or

or Mugello, it's an adventure. know, mean, you know, there's a million different things on every lap and the weather can change and you know, all kinds of stuff. So every lap is an adventure. Endurance racing, Le Mans 24 hour, Bordeaux 24 hour, Spa 24 hour, every race is an adventure. You come across all kinds of different situations. You know, you couldn't even imagine the different weird stuff that happens during a 24 hour race. And they're both quite dangerous as well because of that kind of, you know, randomness of them.

And only after I stopped racing did I think, wow, so I kind of somehow without choosing chose two of the most dangerous, random, adventurous types of racing. I'm happy I did because I find I got quite bored of just, you know, doing a 40 minute race around Mugello. It's like, okay, so you spend two days trying to shave one tenth of a second off your lap time, you know, it's kind of, it's not that I mean, Guy Martin says the same.

you know, that's why he stopped short circuit racing, because he just found it boring. Just going round and round and round and round, coming in two clicks off the high speed rebound. Oh, that's got us a thousandth of a second. Right. Let's go. You know what I mean? It's interesting. It's wasn't exciting enough for me, I think. Whereas the TT and endurance racing really were, you know, was for true. I was going to get the future, actually, because for true, she obviously has done pretty much everything other than the island man. And I think he's done the island man. But getting back to Guy Martin.

Was he a good track writer as well? he like talented on He was fast. He was fast. But he, the reason he's kind of stopped was cause he, he got into a bit of a fight with a BSB official and they kind of took his license away. That's why he kind of shifted into the roads. But I think, you know, he was much more naturally that way. You know, I think it's just, it's just more of an adventure, you know, obviously, you know, comes at a price, but there's more of an adventure. I, I, loved all that stuff.

Angus Norton (27:46.761)
I've never heard anyone talk about it that way. It's really interesting. And so how much have you followed Procucci in your career? like his back, obviously he came to Moto America a few years ago. I thought he was going to win it. He came that close to winning it. He probably should have. But, do you think like, is it any top level rider can move between those types of classes or does it take a special type of rider? Cause he seems pretty special. It takes.

a special rider because you've got to change, you you've got to complete, you've got to change your riding style, your riding technique, not just through the bikes, but just through the tires. know, he went from in three years, he went from Michelin's in MotoGP to Dunlops, rock hard Dunlops in Moto America to super soft Pirellis in world super bikes. So you had to keep changing with a bit of Dakar in between, know? Yeah. I mean, Petrucci's always seemed to me

a little bit like that kind of adventure rider, right? He's not just, it's not just a job for him. He's looking for experiences and adventure, I think. I remember when he came to MotoGP in 2014, I think he'd won the European Superstock title in 2013. And then he got a MotoGP ride with, I've forgotten his name, the guy that used to run the Aprilia

Fatshi team. Ashamed. can't remember. That's right. We'll find it. Yeah, I owed a racing. I the racing and basically, he was in 2014. He rode in a Prilea RSV4 pretty much standard. And at the first race Qatar, he hadn't done any preseason testing because they had no money. he that you know, they have the the the school photo at the beginning of the season when they all yes, you know,

they've all got their Red Bull hats on and Monster hats on and stuff and he's got this truckers hat on that just says love on it. didn't know him I'd never spoken to him and I was like wow this guy I want to speak to this guy because he's interesting I mean you just don't again you just don't get racers you know standing up with a love hat right that's I mean the you know racing is about hate basically it's about trying to kill everyone else on the racetrack.

Angus Norton (30:06.037)
And I've enjoyed speaking to him so much over the years, had really great chats. And he's such a super nice guy. And like I said, although he's very professional, he's always made sure that he has a good time. mean, like when Luis Salom got killed at the 2016 Catalan Grand Prix, him and Rossi tested on the Monday and then they flew, presumably in Rossi's private jet to Ibiza.

And they spent all night drinking wine, you know, because it wasn't a race for wasn't a race the next weekend. It was the weekend after that. know, most races wouldn't do that now because that's just not the way they're made anymore. They, you know, it's all about train, train, train, train, but him and Rossi just spent the whole night just, you know, some, some died, right? Two, three days before. you're like, you know, it could happen to me next week. you've got to live a little right to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

These nuggets are great, mate. And I'm curious, I've always felt there's cultural differences around the level of, should I say exuberance, excitement, fiery sort of personalities. I notice, feel like, and I'm not a professional, obviously, I feel like some cultures are very calm, cool, collected, very, very precise, just,

almost surgical, both on and off this track and the way they talk to the press the way they ride, maybe they're not off camera. And others are just, you know, there's a whole lot of everyone's upset right now about Liam Lawson being promoted to Red Bull in Formula One, Kiwi, because he's always so arrogant and fiery and like, but isn't that just kind of isn't that a good thing? Right? Of course it is. Of course. I mean, I mean, fans. Yeah, I'm not I'm not

having a go at fans, but fans are never fucking happy, right? Am I allowed to swear on this? Of course you are. Fans are never happy, you know, so many of them say, oh, everyone's PR, you know, why are they so boring? Listen to the riders or the drivers and the team managers, they just come out with PC nonsense about this and the other. And then somebody starts being a bit arrogant and telling it like it is. It's like, oh, he's so arrogant, you know.

Angus Norton (32:30.381)
What do you want? know, what do you want them to be boring? Or do you want them to be exciting? And, and, you know, it's got to be a mix of both, isn't it? You know, and, and, as a journalist, the number and as a fan, I think as well, the number one thing you want from a rider or driver, and let's talk, just talk about riders. I don't really care about drivers. Just talking about riders, you just want them to be honest. You want them to be who they are. Right? You don't want them to be.

filtering what they're saying, thinking about how is this going to be taken? You just want them to say it as it is. And if they get into trouble, they don't care. That's the kind of rider I like, you know? And there are quite a few of them around now. mean, the thing is now genuinely in MotoGP, they're all pretty nice people. I won't mention who the assholes, but you know, there's been a few over the years that I've had to deal with over 38 years. But there's none of them. You know, the grid is actually a really...

good people, all of them funny, nice, bright. None of them, obviously they've all got egos. can't race without an ego at all, but they've got their egos under control. You know, they're not ruled by their egos and some of them are more, know, Jorge Martin, he's got a little bit of swag, a little bit of arrogance about him. And I love that. It's fantastic. love the story too. love, I love that, you know, no racing

It's certainly not to get to MotoGP level. It's not a free ride. You have to work hard. I love his story. I've been spending a little bit of time with Cormac Buchanan, who's a Kiwi rider who just made it into Moto3. He's actually the first Kiwi rider to make both the GP class and Simon Kreifer. And just watching him and his family just work so hard for him to follow his dream, for me it feels a bit reminiscent of where he'll has had.

And Cormac's also got a lot of swagger, you know, if you watch the Red Bull rookies, very similar. so I'm just peeling that apart a little bit. going to, want to, what I want to try and do now is move a little bit to the left, which can be dangerous on this topic for two old white guys. I, every, every track day I go to now, and I'm, you know, I'm pretty fast for an old guy, but I'm a track writer. I'm not a pro.

Angus Norton (34:54.221)
I just have my ass kicked by women everywhere. Small women on supersports class bikes just kicking my ass everywhere. And I was like, man, it's awesome. And so my first ever podcast ever was with a woman named Mallory Dobbs, who's a Vodafone America rider. And she went a road near the World Supersport Women's Champs this year. And with another woman, Misty Hurst, who raced AMA in US and was

the first female instructor at the California Superbike School, you know, Keith Code School, which you've probably heard of. Anyway, Mallory, I'm going to be talking to her again soon, but I also interviewed Kayla Yakov, who is an absolute sensation. She's podiuming in Motor America. She's not old enough to go and compete in the FIM world. But her dad told me that she was doing lap times there faster than the woman who won the world championship. Okay. And so

Disclaimer, this is not about about gender. It's more about like, given everything you we've been talking about, given that the motorcycle is a gyroscope, given all the physics involved, do you think it's a supply and demand thing around why women haven't gotten to the top or anywhere near MotoGP level yet? Do you think maybe in our lifetime it will happen? Like what's going on with women in riding? I'm curious. And I don't again, I don't want to like

It's just just a genuine curiosity. I mean, sadly, it's a bit of a minefield because whatever you say is going to piss off. you talk about someone in the book. Yes, yes. About the first ever woman TT rider and the shit that she had to go through. You know, they basically the Ironman TT when they realized the first I've forgotten the name. Doesn't matter. I'll put it on the screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When she entered the 1962 50cc TT.

the first ever 50 cc TT. As soon as she entered the AC were like, holy shit, you the first woman's entering the TT, we can't have this. So they raised the minimum weight limit to like nine and a half stone or something. know, you're not allowed to race. So she spent like three months eating pies basically, just made it. I'm very ashamed that I can't remember her name, but that's my brain.

Angus Norton (37:22.573)
I just started writing Seeming Speed. She died a year or two before and I'm still so angry with myself for not having delved around into that before and gone and interviewed her. mean, what a story, you know? But yeah, so, you know, everything in life, the more mix of genders, race, creeds, whatever, the better, you know, more different it can be from that, the better, whether it's, you know, gender, color.

country, whatever. So women, will they make it to the top? I have no idea. I don't know. But I mean, you know, there is one thing, you know, with motorbikes, it's a very physical game, especially once you get up to the very top, like MotoGP. I mean, you look at Martin and people like that, they're kind of pretty ripped, you know? How far can women get? Can they get to the top? I really don't know. But I love seeing them have a go and love seeing them go fast. And although

when they first started talking about the women's world championship, I kind of spoke to a few women racers that I know and they were all completely against it. They saying no, we want to race against the blokes. I'm like, okay, that's great idea. And then I was like, okay, well, you know, it's up to you to make the choice. But I think it's a great idea because it it's something for other women to, you know, they can actually sing, okay, I can, that's something I can go to. And if I can get further than that, then even better, you know, I mean, that's

To me, like in club racing, people have no idea how even at club racing, how terrifying it is. I mean, I I was 20, 21 and you turn up at the racetrack and there's all these big hairy geezers, you know, just going to you alive, right? They just look at you like they're going to, you know, it's like the first day of big school, basically. They're going to kick shit out of you basically. And you're like, get you on there like, oh shit, don't kill me please. So I could imagine that as a young bloke.

And then imagine that as a young woman. I kind of always think that, you know, club racing, should have, and some countries they do, they have a women's class, just as a way to introduce say, come on, you know, and then give them a chance to get going. And once they've got going off, they go, you know, um, no, I mean, I would, how awesome would it be if you had women doing it as well? You know, would be, yeah, I agree with you. And I agree. We can't predict it. And it's funny. Most of the young ones I meet say the same thing and they're competing with men and coding, I mean, against men.

Angus Norton (39:47.309)
which is cool and it's going to be something to watch I think. It's funny, there's a lot of sports I actually prefer watching women. I really love watching women's rugby for example. It's awesome, it's just really fun. I suppose when I first, I've been following you since MC Anne because I'm an old man as well. You're like, suppose Michael Neaves is like version 2.0 of you a little bit.

Yeah, it's kind of, I don't know, it's weird. mean, all I've ever done is just kind of follow my nose, right? know, there's been a man, I just kind of go from one thing to the next. And I'm too lazy. I'm too stupid to have a plan really. And I can't, you know, what's that saying? You know, plans are God's way of laughing at you, I think, you know, I mean, just why have a plan is just, just, just muddle through life. I was speaking to King Kenny Roberts, you know, the without a doubt.

as a motorcycle racer, not a is talent and what he's done around the sport as a team owner, team motorcycle manufacturer and everything, you know, I interviewed him, I speak to him like once or twice a year and he's just the best guy ever. So funny. So funny. and he just said, you know, I just muddled through life. That's what you do. Yeah. If King Kenny Roberts just says, I've just modeled through life. You know what I mean? To me, to me, that's what your goal should be. Just muddle through life and have a nice time.

Yes, that's great perspective. It's funny, I always feel like muddling and having luck. I'm the same. know, they say the wildest dogs make the best pups. That's what my Scottish grandfather used to say to me. You know, just kind of go with it. And I suppose on that theme, when did you decide you wanted to be a writer and a journalist? Because it's not often you meet someone who has built a career around writing and journalism, but has the perspective of a racer.

I kind of feel the same a bit with Simon Kreyfah. you know, he's, he's, think he's really great on the TV. I don't think he ended up 40 years gonna end up doing that either. for you, when did you know you're gonna be a writer? And like, was that was that an accident or not really an accident. like, as I said, my brother got a bike when he was 17, I was 15. And you know, I was still at school. So I'd be buying all the motorbike mags that I could afford.

Angus Norton (42:12.109)
sitting in class reading the motorbike mags, know, the old thing, not constant, not focusing on what I was meant to be doing. And after a while, I thought, you know, obviously, you know, you're 16, then you're 17, 18. And people are saying, what are going to do and all that? I'm like, through the magazines, you've got these guys who got the best job in the world, right? This guy, he's just writing a road test about the latest Ducati 900. Like, what the, what the hell, you know, that's what I want to do. You know, that looks like a cushy

cushiest, coolest job in the world. So when I was about, I had various rubbish jobs when I left school, I didn't go to university or anything like that. I couldn't be asked. I wanted just to erase my device. So I had very various rubbish jobs working in factories and working in shops and being a dispatcher, I'd like everybody to do at the time. But then I started writing letters to all the motorcycle magazines at that time. There were probably 10 motorcycle magazines or publications in Britain. So every six months, I just sit down and write them all a letter saying,

us a job basically. And then finally one of them answered and said, yeah, we've got a position available, come for an interview. I got the job. That was in 81. So and that was it. So it wasn't really a thing that I wanted to make a living as a writer or anything, although I was particularly good at writing at all. I just thought there's a cushy job, just like us when the TT came along. was like, there's a cushy two weeks, you know, riding around the Isle of Man and just writing one story, you know, so basically,

All of these things come from my desire for a cushy life, suppose, basically. then I would say it probably 15 years. So I said, no, no, not that long, probably five, six, seven years before I started getting a kind of voice that was actually me talking rather than me just going, you know, I rode this bike and it did this, that and the other before I got the confidence to actually bring a bit of myself into it, I suppose, you

I edited Performance Bikes magazine in the late 70s and that was quite a famous magazine at the time because it was just all about being dangerous basically. I was 27 when was editor of that and I had no idea what I was doing but I just wanted to do stupid things on motorbikes and so that's basically what the was all about. The guy I do a podcast with now, Peter Baum, Dutch guy, he had a really bad accident in the 90s and

Angus Norton (44:39.083)
I only met him for the first time a few years ago and he basically said, that's your fault. And he was in hospital for like six months or something. So he was getting performance bikes magazine in Holland in the Netherlands and thinking, wow, all these wheelies and spinning the tire and doing this, that and then getting your knees down. That's what I want to do. And he, he was doing that and had this huge accident, you know, luckily not to die. So I do kind of think, although I had a lot of fun and never, obviously never considered the consequences. I do think that I probably put a few people in hospital through my, you know,

encouraging people to behave badly, suppose. So yeah, sorry about that. No, don't be sorry. I really enjoyed the banter that you two have on your podcast. It's really it's very the reason I like it is it's very it's quite a technical podcast, like in terms of the way you talk about our sport. It's not trying to be like these people they call themselves influencers, I think I'm too old to understand that. But, you know, they sort of do these things and you don't quite know what we're talking about. Like,

My mate said, I all love your podcast for that reason. We love it. That banter and then that transition you mentioned from magazines that used to rule the world. Everyone had a magazine to all these other forms of media that you're involved in. It'd be great. I want to make sure I capture this because you downplay things a lot, which is one of the great things I think about people that are humble, but you've gone from racing motorcycles to

the transition from press to online and all these things, the MotoGP being all over the world. Do you go to every race live? I go to half them. I go to every other race. So I go to like 12 races a year. I used to go to all of them, but I've got kids now and I'm old. And actually, you know what you're saying about the internet, you know, it doesn't make it easy to make money. You know, in the old days you could sell a story 10 different times to

all around the world and now you can sell it twice. know, so money wise, journalism is a bit on its ass really. So yeah, I'll go to half the races and that's as long as you go to every other one. You can still, you're still in with what's going on. You know, you can, all about being working the paddock is all about, you know, yours, everyone sees what fans get amazing coverage. Now just amazing coverage, you know, the

Angus Norton (47:02.721)
you know, the on track stuff, the action stuff, and then the speaking to the riders and you know, the pit lane guys coming up and down, up and down, you know, if you're watching the dawn of feed, speaking to team managers and engineers, amazing. But the only way to really discover what's going on is to be there yourself and to be wandering up and down behind the garage and knowing people and having been there for a million years and established relationships with

mechanics and engineers and all that stuff. So a, they know who you are. you know, walking along, you'll bump into a mechanic or an engineer and you'll start chatting and he'll tell you something and you'll go, okay. That's interesting. And then you go and, you know, check that out with a suspension guy and a tire guy and, then you build a story from that, you know, it's, you can't really do that unless you're going to at least half the races, you can't, you're going to really

know what's going on. the reason I'm technical, I'm not technical at all. But the reason I write a lot of technical stuff is it's a technical sport. The technology is completely 100 % important. I think a lot of fans think that racing is about emotion and this guy's in a good mood this weekend. So he's riding really well. And suddenly he's got the he's got into the zone. No, he hasn't. You know, they've got a setup on his bike that he finally feels comfortable.

comfortable with it's especially at a professional level now where none of them are really ruled by emotion and so on it's all about technology you know how you know they made a change to the setup or they put a new part on it or a new know a new electronic setting or some new aero or whatever and suddenly the rider feels comfortable and off he goes you know so the technology is hugely important the thing I guess what I try to do is try to explain it

to the normal people, because I'm a normal person myself. I don't really understand it. I have to ask the engineers a lot of stupid questions. You can see them rolling their eyes at you like, you're going, yeah, but what does that do? And why does that do that? And how does that do that? You know, that's so I think actually not being that technical in my job is actually a good thing, because then I understand the level of understanding of your average fan. So I don't try not to overcomplicate things. Yeah, that's some.

Angus Norton (49:23.777)
That's interesting. My day job is software engineering and very technical things, and I'm not a software engineer. So I have software engineers work for me. And I can't bullshit them and say, well, I don't know. I'm not a developer, right? Kind of similar for you, but you're able to get questions. You're able to right. ask the right questions. And I'm very conscious of our time together. So want to make sure that I'm being super, super efficient with it.

I got to ask you because you you've ridden with all these folks. Now, I don't believe everything I read on the internet, but it would look to me as though you've built a bit of a relationship with some of them like Rossi and others. apparently Rossi rode on the island, he didn't race, but he did the Isle of Man TT once. How do those guys do in that environment? Like, are they good? Like, was Rossi good?

I wasn't, it was 2009, I think that was when various PR companies working for the TT and they just decided it was time to kind of get some MotoGP riders over. And obviously Rossi was the right one because A, you know, bigger than MotoGP, even bigger than MotoGP. Not many sports people are bigger than their own sports, but Rossi was one of them. not only that, he also gets the history of the sport, right? A lot of races, and I was the same when I was young, they don't care about the history.

You know, they're only looking forward, you know, I can remember when I was kind of getting reasonably good and there were still people racing Manx Norton's in classic races. Hell are you racing that piece of shit for? You could go out and he's at 250. I didn't get it because I was young and dumb. but Rossi always got the history of the sport. Always. He wasn't just a narrow little, you know, where's next, where's next. He saw the whole history of the thing and

When he went over, he did a lap behind Giacomo Agostino. I have no idea what the lap time was. It wouldn't have been that fast, but I mean, they were, would have been going, you know, and Rossi would have been up for it. But I know other riders, top riders, know, Lorenzo, McDoom, people like that went over there and just like went, what the fuck is going on? insane. don't, you even going, doing a slow lap around there, you're going pretty fast in the fast bits. And if you think,

Angus Norton (51:46.091)
the road after this blind left-hander goes to the right, where in fact it goes to the left, and you're doing 100 miles an hour, it's difficult to change direction in time. know, when you've made a mistake, it's actually quite difficult to correct it. know, so yeah, absolutely. Fairfax to Rossi for doing that. You know, I think he got got it. He absolutely got it. What is it? Yeah, talk about the history. You would probably I'm sure you'd appreciate this.

I've written across Italy a few times. And the last time I did it, I spent a few days in Pesero, little Italian town near where Rossi lives. got to visit Mr. Morbidale. No, I'm not talking about this. He's got no relation to Morbidale. I don't know if you ever met him, he had an amazing private collection. ever visit his private collection? Yeah.

So he was the guy who was in charge of the Morbideli. You know, they made mainly race bikes in the sort of 80s, 70s, 80s. Yeah, the big V8 thing. Nothing to do with Franco Morbideli who's from Rome. But yeah, you just go in there and this old boy, think he, I mean, he's passed away sadly now, but I arrived there on the Saturday or the Friday of a Misano race. And I'd run up the day before to see if he was open. are you open tomorrow? And this guy said, yes, yes, yes.

I turned up in the morning and he was on it was just him asleep asleep in the kind of front office and I kind of knocked on the door. Yeah. And he said, take your he woke up and took me around, you know, person just insane. I mean, a very quite a special little memory really. It's kind of the home. Some people say it's the home of Italian mother. Yeah. And Natalie and it's funny that

I had a similar experience. I've got a photo of me and the elder Morbidale and he, you he had some folks, I'll put some links up, but he hand built all these machines himself, every single one. And, um, but then this guy that I was with, who an older guy knew everyone, he took me to all these random farmhouses with old Italian men that had these bikes in their backyards, that they'd been all these amazing motorcycles. Um, it's cool when you share that because, uh,

Angus Norton (54:05.025)
when I was reading your book, kept going back to that visit because of all the bites that you were talking about in the book. And so we have about eight minutes left. So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions and then the big one, you may not be able to answer it and it's okay if you don't want to, but I feel like in every sport, people talk about the goat, the greatest of all time.

As a Kiwi, of course, I like rugby and I think that we have some pretty great all time rugby players, etc. But when it comes to motorcycling, when it comes to racing, what is your definite, I'm not going to ask you who, but what do you think defines the greatest of all time? Is it just their performance on track or is it the commutation of everything? I think if you're talking about a sports person, which we are, then it's going to be their performance doing that sport.

For example, Rossi, you know, done a hundred times more than anyone else for the sport. But that's irrelevant to his sporting prowess. It's another story. you know, it's talent, perseverance, dedication, intelligence, very important, all those kind of things. I would, I couldn't name the goat, but I would name my top three.

in no particular order, would be King Kenny Roberts, Valentino Rossi and Mark Marquez. They would be my three. Who would be? It's just too tricky to say who's the best. just don't really like kind of nailing your colors to the mast on something like that because, you know, how do you compare them really? I mean, I would say from a pure riding talent point of view, that it would be Marquez.

and then Kenny, because they both introduced completely new way of ridings to Grand Prix racing. know, when he turned up in 78, he was sliding the rear when no one else was doing that, completely changed the sport. When Marquez turned up, he started sliding the front. No one else was doing that, completely changed the sport. Rossi, he's right there with them on talent. His talent was a way of just eking everything out of every aspect of racing.

Angus Norton (56:26.667)
And although we talk about, was saying, you know, his, his fame doesn't have anything to do with it, but the way he operated off the track does, you know, and that's just as important, making sure you're in the right team, making sure you screw over all the other riders, you know, off the track as well as on the track, you know, to operate at that level at the top, it's not just about riding a motorbike, many, many other things, many, others, which is what I love. mean,

people say, oh, it's, you know, the way he screwed over that guy, that's awful. No, no, it's not. It's great. That's the whole point. I mean, in rugby, sorry, not in rugby, boxing, you know, when Ali was doing all that stuff, you know, messing with people's heads. There was a couple of instances where he went a bit too far, but you know, that to me is what it's all about, you know, you know, it's a complete picture being in a sport. It's not just the actual mechanics of the

of actually riding around a circuit. There's so many other things, like I said, making sure you've got the best team, making sure you've got the best crew chief, making sure you've got the best this, that and the other, know, making sure that you fuck with the other guy's heads, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. It's funny. I think you really nailed it. Even for a lowly amateur track rider like me, I definitely see the difference between the guys that are going and racing and that I've gotten to know.

And there is that what you just said, and it's, it seems to be very common across all sports. You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that if we had another five hours, I'd love to ask you because you've got so much in your head. And I figured the best way maybe to answer them would be, can you tell me a bit about the books you've written? And like, cause I know I've read this one. I've been trying to get the animated version of it. It's really hard. It's a thousand dollars on eBay. We've sold out, I'm afraid. Yeah. Cause obviously there's a lot of your life in these books. So.

Yeah, quite a few. They just keep coming out. So the first one I wrote was in the late 90s was a Mick Doohan biography. And the publishers got on to me and said, we want you to write a book on doing because I'd worked with him pretty much all the way through his career. So I didn't know him well, but I knew him better than most journalists. And I thought, I don't want to do that. was you know, that's like 50,000 words. You're like, what? Yeah, that's I mean, there's nothing more terrifying than sitting down in front of your computer and

Angus Norton (58:48.941)
thinking, right, here I go, 50,000 words. mean, how do you do that? So I didn't want to do it, but they convinced me. And then it wasn't as bad as I thought. Wasn't this, you you break everything down into chapters and then it starts, you know, 5,000 words on that chapter, 6,000, it becomes a bit more doable. So I did that first. What was my second book? I think it was a history of Honda's first 500 wins in 2001. Then Rossi's biography in 2002.

And then, where are And then another Rossi picture book in 2005, and then a kind of collection of my magazine stories. I've done a few of them. And that was the stealing speed that wrote in 2009, I think. I've been working towards for years and yeah, I was in a particularly special headspace when I read that I've spent, you know, I didn't have a publishing contract. Pretty much generally, I don't have contracts at all. I just, if I want to write a book, I'll go out and research it and then I'll try and,

I did a lot of research flying around to interview his, know, Degner's widow and his son. It's a kind of James, for anybody that doesn't know, it's a kind of James Bond's on bikes thing from the 1960s. It's just, it's a true story and it will, it's just an astonishing story. And I was lucky that no one else had written a book before because they should have done, you know, because it's, it's probably the best story in motorcycle racing. It's a proper, and I spent a lot of time interviewing people and

Yeah, when I read it now, I don't do this, think, well, that's actually that's actually quite good. And I don't think I've ever. I've never reached that. You know, that was probably my high point has been coming down ever since I've Racing Hitler, which was another one similar kind of thing. It's a kind of collision. Seeing speed is a collision of sport, technology, culture, politics. You know, just I love it when

all of these things collide, you know, because then you get a proper story. It's not just guys riding around in circles. There's much bigger thing than that. And that's why I like stories like that, Yeah, I Racing Hitler as well. I think it's really cool that we get to be in a podcast and you remain humble. Like this book is like, we should all talk about the podcast, actually, because maybe not about it, because if you're into history, you're into motorcycle, even if you're not into motorcycling, the story is great.

Angus Norton (01:01:17.645)
But if you missed the smell of pre-bic, of two-stroke pre-mix and you missed the smell of, I've lost count of how many pistons the blue holes in. We used to put IT 250 pistons into Vespas. And then we'd go to some random guy who had built an expansion chamber. The amount of work you could do on your own, even if you weren't technical, great days, great days. And so if you long for those days, it's a great book. So...

Mate, I'm not going to end with like the silly questions that people always ask. Like if you could tell younger Matt one thing, would it be? Because I feel like you'll tell me I don't know, because it's all luck. So like, you know, you're kind of hustling and that's cool. hustling. Yeah. And I'm going to put all the links to your stuff up on the YouTube video because it's really hard to get. I wanted five copies of this book. republished it, actually. I've just republished it.

Okay, I needed a bit of money to pay for my air tickets to all these races. So I published it in about a month ago. Most of them are sold out already because it just seems to be that thing that and like I say, I did a I think I did a fairly good job of telling the story. But the main thing is the story, right? Yeah. It's just the more I was, you know, flying around, meeting mechanics who'd worked on the bikes riders in the book and so on. It was one of those things that

every time you spoke to somebody you were like what no way that really happened and so it was just this fantastic journey of kind of discovery and then and then just trying to put it all together in a book you know yeah well we'll put all the links up i ordered five copies as christmas gifts they just arrived actually like two days ago yeah and i know my my friend zack courts i know you had you did an interview of zack and he's got your picture book which he he likes to talk about

But mate, it's been an absolute pleasure meeting you. Thank you. I know you're cheering up for the next season and it's always great to meet someone that can tell stories like you have. And I'm sure that everyone really appreciate it. I'll continue to listen to your podcast, which I love. I love the banter you guys have. The concept is pretty simple. We're down the bar, you know, down the pub, having a chat about what happened last week or we're having a chat about this, that or the other. And so it's very

Angus Norton (01:03:44.905)
It's very low key and quite amateur in a nice way. We're just chatting like you would down the bar, you know, and sometimes we even drink beer while we're doing it. Yeah, that's sweet. But it is quite technical because Peter is a proper engineer. Yeah. Like I say, to understand what's going on in MotoGP or any kind of motorcycle racing, you have to understand what's going on technically. You know, it's not just guys waking up feeling like they're going to be faster that day and winning the race.

there's always a technical reason for pretty much everything that happens. Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. Man, we can talk forever. I'm gonna stop recording now. Thank you, sir. So go away. you. It's been really great. I was always very happy to talk shit about motorbikes. love it. that's my absolutely black. Perfect.