Zack Courts: Life as a RevZilla Motorcycle Journalist

Zack Courts is a motorcycle journalist, content creator, and co-host of RevZilla's CTXP and Daily Rider series on YouTube. He rides and reviews motorcycles for a living, from supercharged flagships to budget commuters.

In this episode, Zack talks about his career path into motorcycle media, what a typical bike review looks like behind the scenes, and some of the wildest rides he's had along the way. We also talk about the state of motorcycle journalism and how the industry has changed with the shift to digital and video.

If you watch RevZilla content, this is your chance to hear the full story from one of the people who makes it.

Transcript

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Angus Norton (00:01.934)
Welcome back to the show everyone. Today we have a very special guest. Someone who's been a familiar face and voice in the motorcycle world for over a decade. Whether you've read his insightful reviews, watched his epic adventures on YouTube, or followed his technical breakdowns, you'll know this name, Zach Cortes. Now,

Zach has been at the forefront of motorcycle journalism since his days at Motorcyclist magazine, where he became known for his work on the legendary On Two Wheels series. He's also been a driving force behind some of the most entertaining and informative motorcycle content with Revzilla's YouTube shows like Daily Rider and Common Tread. He's also the co-host of High Side Low Side podcast with Spurgeon Dunbar.

But here's the thing about Zach. He doesn't just talk about motorcycles. He lives them. He is a proper road tester. He tests everything from supercharged beasts like the Kawasaki H2SX that I chatted to him about today to diving deep into commuter scooters and even riding cross country on bikes that most of us wouldn't take across town.

Now, Zach's experience spans it all and what sets him apart is his ability to break down complex technology and make it relatable to everyone from brand new riders to seasoned veterans. Today, we're going to get into it all. His career in motorcycle journalism, the bikes that stand out, his craziest riding experiences, and of course, his thoughts on where motorcycling is headed.

So, without further ado, let's give a warm welcome to the one and only Zack Kortz.

Angus Norton (01:51.285)
Well, hey, it's really great to be here today with someone who I've been following actually since 2018, around that time when I first discovered Zach's work. And so this is Zach Court. You just saw the intro earlier, so I go into that too much, but Zach, welcome to the podcast and thanks for making the time. Yeah. I'm flattered that.

You think I'm interesting enough to talk to and I like, I like talking about bikes as you know, it's sort of do it for a living. So, um, I'm, I'm happy to have a conversation with you. This should be fun. Yeah. What was interesting to me about your background is it's almost like we're like brothers from another kind of world because, so I read, I read, um, one of your articles, I think it was called, um, the last road North. think it was, it was, uh, you wrote a BMW 1200 GS. Um,

to the and down highway. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd written so I'd written around the world. I've written across Australia, Asia, most of Japan, New Zealand, and a large part of Eastern Europe, touring on motorcycles. And when I read your article, it was like, this is my guy. And then, you know, I'm also into track. And the other article I read was Long Live the King. Yeah, so it was

Superbike article to carry Superbike article around the transition to the V4. Okay. Right on. Right. And I'm like, okay, this guy. And then I start watching you more and I'm like, wait a minute dudes into scooters. So I grew up on scooters. Like my first motorcycle was a GS 160 Vespa. And then we used to like put Molossi chambers on them and race them on the racetrack in New Zealand in like the late eighties.

And I'm like, this dude's like into scooters, touring and track. mean, we must be related. Did you, did you race scooters or was it, it was your, it was your intro into it was the intro into two wheels and then you race them or like you just started racing them right away or. and try to two wheels first because it was the whole, the whole mod revival. and I'm an old guy, so there was this whole mod revival. All right. So, it, our scooter is a big deal in New Zealand. guess I wouldn't have expected that, but,

Angus Norton (04:12.237)
But I don't know. It's not, I've never been there. So I, I can't say. Yeah. You got to get down there and write. Yeah. They are a really big deal. And, um, yeah, they are. Um, they certainly were, and they still tend to be, cause we're more British in our culture. And there's a, there was a big British influence from the sixties. Okay. Yeah. Right on. Well, yeah, it sounds like, it sounds like we got plenty to talk about between, you know, riding, riding on lonely roads on adventure bikes to riding, uh, super bikes on racetracks to scooters.

Yeah, I enjoy your banter. I love the perspective and what I'm really curious about is so many things I'm curious about. Um, but there are a couple of, um, constants in your career and frankly, your life. One of them, um, is Ari. Are you hearing right? Yeah. Right. And like you guys have like been mates as kids and then in a career together and like it's, I'm really curious about that whole thing. Cause I've watched him race and he's

fast as hell. And he's pretty good at a wrench. And that's super interesting. And then your, I suppose your perspective has been very consistent around two wheels doesn't matter if it's a scooter or a track bike, you just love two wheels. And sometimes you're like three wheels, I think because you do that. Sometimes Yeah, yeah. How does that? It's like that always been how you roll. So like, curious about that.

Yeah, I guess the, to address the whole, like, I guess if I'm reading between the lines of your question a little bit, you're sort of saying, I seem like I'm excited about lots of different two wheeled vehicles, not specific ones. Like I don't seem like I'm. Yeah. I think, I don't know. I guess part of it's like a background thing. And I grew up, riding a bicycle at a young age. And I think that, I spent a long time on a bicycle before my parents got me a motorcycle.

And I only learned recently actually that that was a very intentional thing that my dad did because he felt like I should have to create my own, kinetic energy. I should have to propel myself, on a bicycle and learn to control the vehicle, and learn to fall off it and whatever, you know, like make mistakes under my own power before he gave me an engine to power me. And I guess I bring that up because I think that the, that feeling that you have on a bicycle as a kid is.

Angus Norton (06:38.807)
how I think connected to how I feel on just about any two wheel vehicle and whether it's a whether it's a scooter or a super bike or whatever because it offers you this sort of different style of transport and agility and and freedom that that not the other forms of transportation don't and so it's easy to slip into

A type of riding, know, there, there are plenty of people who are into sport bikes and like, that's what they like. And then when they see a Harley, they're like, no, Harleys are stupid. That's dumb. Or they're into little mopeds. And anytime they see a big touring bike, they're like, no, those are big and heavy and slow and old fat guys ride them. And I'm not an old fat guy, so I'm not going to be a part of that. excuse me. but I think that, that. I, I, I'm not sure if it was my dad's influence or someone else in my life or something, or just my own experiences, but I always just sort of.

got a kick out of riding just about anything with two wheels. I just think it's fun. And I don't, I prefer to see the similarities rather than the differences, I guess, or maybe the similarities resonate with me more than the differences do. And I can totally appreciate that a Honda Goldwing is big and heavy and Kawasaki Ninja 500 is small and light. But I just like riding both of them for

the different reasons and I enjoy the things that they are good at because ultimately I just like that feeling of being on two wheels of like having my own freedom and my own vehicle. Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely clear. And I wonder, I know that your father was in the peace corps, right? And I'd read somewhere that like literally had some pretty cool like adventures, like riding in places like Morocco and, that sort of thing.

Do you think, um, do you think you would have felt the way you feel without that influence? Or do you think it was just like, you're, you're born with a motorcycle gene? Yeah. I mean, you know, his influence certainly, you know, anyone who has a father or mother or an uncle, or, know, some sort of, um, parental in a, sort of a guardian figure in your life, when you're young, that is into motorcycles that really, obviously that imparts a lot, right? Cause we're impressionable, especially when we're young and, um, we look up to those people and

Angus Norton (09:02.001)
and so, yeah, certainly, you know, my dad's influence is big, but also my mom, like she, she rode motorcycles in Morocco too. She was not a, you know, she didn't pursue motorcycles in the way my dad did. It's his thing, not her thing. but she rode in Morocco also. and she, did their honeymoon across Europe and Eastern Europe to up on a motorcycle. and, and while motorcycles were not her thing, she,

supported it in kind of interesting way in retrospect. think my generation sort of millennial generation as parents are very protective and, and, uh, nervous. Um, and I think that my parents are kind of like, you know, they were hippies that had a kid in the early eighties and they were kind of like, yeah, I don't know, whatever, like, do you want to, do you want to do what you want to do? You know, and I raced motorcycles and I think it made my parents nervous probably, but I can remember my mom being at a race at the races when I rode race when I was a teenager and I crashed in the race.

And one of my friends, one of our friends came up later, an adult friend that I had, and they said, yeah, you, when you crashed and you didn't come around that lap, everyone was really worried. Everyone was like, where is he? Where is he? And your mom was kind of like, there's nothing we can do about it. There's there. There isn't like, can panic right now if I want to, because my son is missing on a racetrack and that's scary. But I think she always had that perspective of sort of like, he's off doing his thing. And I think that as much as being introduced to motorcycles and being put on them and

that kind of thing. I was also encouraged to live my own life and, and go be my own person in a way that maybe some kids aren't. And, so that influence, think that has, that has a lot of encouraging influence on a, on a child, think when the parents are sort of like, you know, we're going to teach you about safety. want you to be, we safe and not reckless, but also we want you to choose to do things that you love, which I think is lucky.

Yeah, I remember listening to a really great set of high side, low side podcasts where you guys talked about your family and you brought your dad in. And I think that was that was really cool to hear actually. And and just sort of I was curious on that note, too. Like, did you were you racing inside cars if your dad before you got on a bike and started racing or? Yes. Yes.

Angus Norton (11:23.053)
Yeah, I raced with him when I was, think technically before I was supposed to race. I was, you were supposed to be 16, but I started when I was 15 on the sidecar. I raced with him as a passenger monkey on the sidecar. And then the next year when I was 16, I started solo riding. Um, cause those were the rules at the time and the clubs that we were in and whatever. So we did, we bent the rules and I technically raced. I didn't pilot a bike by myself, but I raced a sidecar like a sort of a year too early. Um,

for all the clubs and, that was fun. And that incidentally, that podcast that you're talking about, we had our dads on and, that was, that was the, that was the interview that I did with him that I learned that he was so intentional about not getting me a dirt bike until I was, you know, eight or nine or whatever, because he was like, I don't think putting a four year old on a dirt bike is the best idea. I think they should like learn to fall off a bicycle first, which I thought was interesting. But anyway, yes, I did ride a sidecar first and, and that's also an interesting influence for, racing. know, that's a very.

that's an atypical way to learn your way around a racetrack to ride a sidecar. But in retrospect, it was so, such a beautiful thing that my, my dad was this experienced racer by the time I was a teenager and, just a club racer, you amateur racer, but, but I got to ride around with him, you know, like literally. Next to him, literally look, literally looking over his shoulder and left-hand corners, going through curves and like, you know, learning his lines and like seeing how racing worked, which is such an incredibly.

kind of visceral and hands-on way to learn your way around the racetrack. And I certainly feel fortunate to have had that opportunity. Well, I know you can ride. I mean, I, it's cool to what I watched you riding. I think it was Jerez. I think you were riding in Europe recently. I'm a new Panigale. yeah, that was Vallelunga in Italy. yeah, yeah, same, same difference. You're cool European racetrack that, the States we kind of, maybe don't appreciate how many rad.

Rad, racing venues there are. And that was one I hadn't been to just north of Rome in Italy and, really cool track. Yeah. Anyway, you saw, you saw a video. I did. post a video or I post like, yeah, you posted a video and, I suppose as someone that like, in the business you're in, it's okay for me to say that I'm a stalker because I love your content. So I kind of stalk you. mean, I'm putting myself out there. you're following, yeah, it's funny. you're obviously a millennial, you remind me a lot of,

Angus Norton (13:46.753)
one of my favorite all time journalists, Michael neaves, out of a, he probably was. Yeah. And Michael's more my age. And, so he was writing before the internet in many ways. and, I don't know if you know a story, but it was kind of like, a reality show where people had to try out, like they'd go and like record a video, ride a bike. And then you went through this eight week competition to get hired.

to be an MCN journalist. interesting. That's how he got hired. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. And he won it. Yeah. And, the rest is history. But what I like about your work is you're, you're deeply technical about, about all things, motorcycling. You've got a lot of different perspectives. And what I love is what we've been talking about is this background of going back to being a kid, because what I find in the U S is that

Motorcycling here for most people is a hobby. It's not a lifestyle. It's not a daily thing that you have to it's it's a thing you have in the garage is gathers dust in the winter and it comes out in summer. Whereas in Europe, you know, the culture is so strong from right, you know, I see women in Europe on Vespers ride the shit out of everyone I rode through the Dolomites and you had my ass kicked by just amazing riders there. Everyone rides well. And it's a thing, right. And you can lane filter and cars look out for you and all of that.

So for a kid raised in the U S in a culture that isn't really a, it's not part of daily life. Right. Like any perspective on that or like LA is pretty cool. You can blame filter there and stuff, but yeah, yeah. Los Angeles. mean, California in general, coastal California anyways, you know, metropolitan coastal California is, sort of European esque in some ways because, because yeah, you can, you can filter between cars when you ride. and the

The, the, the weather's good. You know, the, climate is temperate. so there's like, there's year round riding and drivers are more used to seeing motorcycles on the road and that kind of thing. but yeah, you're right. I mean, you know, European culture is an interesting thing. The thing I find fascinating about it is that you talk about, you know, people using motorcycles to get around. It's an interesting thing, right? Where like, there's, there are people, I'm sure there's a person somewhere in continental Europe,

Angus Norton (16:08.717)
whatever, let's make up a person, 45, 50 year old woman who has two kids and a family and whatever. She uses a scooter to get around every day of the week, practically every day of the week to get around the city that she lives in, in Italy or Spain or whatever. And she probably puts more miles on than, you know, 90 % of the dudes in Los Angeles that think they're hardcore riders. Um, and at the same time, she doesn't really care about

I get the feeling that that person that I've just made up really has this sort of like, that's my identity. That's who I am as a motorcyclist. know, like it's just something that she does and, in doing it is probably good at it. and it's like, has good situational awareness and has good control over the vehicle and blah, blah, but doesn't identify as that thing. And I think, guess my, the way I was raised maybe is kind of a blend of those things. Like I wasn't raised to believe that.

that like that motorcycles are you know, this, this holy thing, this, these deities that we must worship. They're sort of like, it's a, it's a mutual relationship. It's a partnership that you have with the machine and you need to learn to respect the, the machine. And, it also doesn't have to be the thing that identifies you. And for me, that's the struggle because it's my job. And it's like,

It's the thing that people know about me more than anything, right? Like they often meet me. then when I meet that same person a year later, they're like, you're that motorcycle guy. And that's not necessarily how I feel, you know, like I don't necessarily feel like it's all I do. have, care about other things. but I guess the, the, I think, I think I, I try to have a sort of like holistic broader view of the world, than just motorcycles, even though.

Um, they've given me so much and I, like, I appreciate the lifestyle and what motorcycling is and does for me so much. But, um, but I also think like it's equally important to have other things and, and, and not, not let that be the center of one's universe, I guess. Yeah. I'm really curious about that. Um, you know, I have a day job, I actually run my own company, um, which is a whole lot of fun. And, uh, but you know, uh, what I'm really curious about when I look at your content, I see glimmers of, of what you.

Angus Norton (18:29.057)
who you are outside of motorcycling, you know, whether it was the, you had the, the, onto wheels series, but you also had the MC commute series, which I feel like daily rider kind of maybe spun out of that, but, but, yeah. But when I see your content, whether it's the crazy stuff you do with Ari, or just your content, I, feels like you love the outdoors. You love understanding.

Different types of cultures and people and points of view. you, you know, you like kind of doing stuff on the edge, whether it's on a motorcycle or not. And I'm, curious about if that's a part of you that maybe not everyone sees. No, I don't know. I, I think that, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure. don't think that I, I don't feel like any more sort of like adventurous or adrenaline fueled than the average person to be honest. I think that.

I just have a, I guess I, a sense of wanting to learn and see things, know, like I'm curious. I think that's a big piece of like how I end up in motorcycle adventures and how I end up in different places in the world in general. is that, I just, I'm interested in seeing, in seeing that stuff. Like, you know, the area and I did that, that dumb and dumber ride where we built, we built the bike from the movie, dumb and dumber, the little like mini bike thing.

you know, like lawnmower powered mini bike. And then we rode it from Nebraska to Aspen, Colorado, like they did in the movie as a sort of like, to see what it was like. And that's a, like a gimmicky kind of silly idea for a video on the internet. But honestly, it was kind of born from a genuine slice of curiosity. You know, like they, they, this, they made this movie in the nineties that was silly about, about two dumb guys. And one of the things they did was ride a.

mini bike partway across the United States. And it's a three minute scene in the movie, you know, it's blinking. miss it. Um, and for us, I think it was a fun exploration of, pop culture, but also like we, we, I literally was curious. was like, well, what, does that feel like? What would it be like to do that? Cause no one really knows. Like they didn't do it in the movie. It was just, it was a gag. was like, uh, it was a joke about how they rode a little mini bike that far.

Angus Norton (20:55.297)
But I was actually just curious. think we sort of knew what it was going to be like, but the adventure that spun out of that was sort of like different and bigger than we could have expected because we placed ourselves in that environment. And it was all because we were curious to answer this silly question. I think that's, yeah, like I said, I don't feel like a true adrenaline junkie. I feel like more of a curiosity junkie. Curiosity.

Yeah, I suppose like for you, you're a journalist, right? That's, know, and I'm curious, obviously journalists are curious. was journalism, something that you always wanted to do or like a lot of us, you just kind of fell into it and enjoyed it. Stan, maybe from that curiosity that you have. Yeah, good question. I don't think I, I did, I liked the idea of writing. I was sometime in middle school or high school.

I learned to type quickly on a keyboard and that was, think it had to do with like, you know, AOL instant messenger or some, some sort of like instant messaging service that I was using on my computer to communicate with my friends. And that honed my typing skills accidentally, you know, like I didn't learn on purpose, but I learned how to use a keyboard and that allowed my creativity and, like sort of writing skills to blossom a little bit in a way that I didn't, hadn't appreciated up to that point. Cause it's so hard.

One of the hard things about writing is organizing one's thoughts and putting them down into words that make sense to read. And I was always really bad at math and science. So writing in English was sort of an obvious thing to gravitate toward. as far as motorcycle journalism specifically, like I never thought that I would actually do that. It was sort of like a, you know, like a, by the time I was an adult and I graduated college, I thought of it more as like a retirement plan. You know, it's like, I'll get a real job and I'll do, I'll live a life that, that one can be proud of. And then.

You know, when I theoretically retire and my kids are in college and I can afford it, I'll go to motorcycle. I'll like write articles about motorcycles because I like it because whatever who cares. Um, and so the, the, the career aspect of it did not happen. Um, like, I mean, it happened intentionally, but it didn't happen in a way that, in the way that I thought it would, um, because I made some efforts to make it happen and it didn't work out. I thought, well, I guess that's that. Um, I do think to answer your question, the curiosity helps, you know, um, it helps to be.

Angus Norton (23:19.137)
that to try to have interest in, in, everything in life to, to tell the good stories in my opinion. Yeah. And I, and I see your storytelling. I see the way, the way you bounce off and with your, your colleagues, like, the spurge, spurge and Dunbar relationship on, on, high side. Lycid is really interesting to watch. mean, my dad was Scottish. Okay. My name is Angus. I thought that was a Scottish name, but

Spurgeon Dumbar. mean, man, that's a serious name right there. It is. Right. Yeah. my God. I heard his name. I'm like, my God. I think I've got ancestors from a hundred years ago of that name, you know, in Scotland. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. it's a, it's a, it's a complicated name for a complicated man. That's all I can say. But you guys, and then, you I don't, I obviously follow Ari as well. And I feel like.

now that relationship, since we started talking about your childhood, are we heading for those of you that know him? I've go look at my pop up links. very, a lot of different dimensions to him as well, but when did that relationship start? Yeah. So our dad's race motorcycles in the same club when we were little kids. And, when you're a little kid at the racetrack and your dad's racing around, all you have to do is sort of like ricochet around the paddock and cause trouble. And so that's, we did that together. You know, we like.

rode bicycles and did wheelies and made jumps and stole hot dogs from people's barbecues. And so I probably, don't know. I don't remember that specifically, but, but, know, yeah, we, we were just sort of like little, track rats. and, and yeah, eventually grew, we're old enough to have dirt bikes and we sort of like ride dirt bikes around, at some tracks and, and yeah. And then we, yeah, we disconnected his dad with injured motorcycle racing, in the late nineties around.

Yeah. 99, I think. And so we kind of, uh, we were teenagers then or sort of middle school age. And we said, I drifted apart because he stopped going to the racetrack. then in our mid twenties, um, both moved to California, sort of independent of each other, not really connected at all. And then, uh, yeah, he sort of spotted me on a race results sheet, I think in Northern California and sent me a look, found my email somehow and sent me an email. Um, which we looked up a number of years ago. It was kind of fun when I met my wife. Um,

Angus Norton (25:42.561)
About 10 years ago, she was, she heard this story and she said, do you have that email where Aries sent you that first email? Do you have it? And I said, I don't know. I've never looked for it. And she said, we'll look for it. I want to see it. And, and I looked it up and sure enough, there it was. It was like, you know, this like re contact in our twenties of Aries sending me a message saying, is this you, is this the kid that we do? We used to hang out. Do we used to be friends? And said, Hey man, no way. Holy cow. and then that, that, reconnection and, rekindling of that friendship led to.

us working at Motorcycles Magazine together and then the past 10, 15 years now of whatever, of being colleagues. So yeah, pretty, pretty fun sort of a fun journey to be on together. That's cool. Those relationships, um, as an old guy, I'll tell you like the older you get, like the it's very rare to actually make new friends as you get really old, like me. Right. Um, but the fact you can reconnect, um, I actually have like a really similar story. New Zealand is a really small place. Right. So, you know, we're.

Sure. Four, five million people, 50 million sheep, but no sheep jokes. Australians like the sheep jokes. Okay. It's okay. You can do one later if you want. Okay. Yeah. I'll think about a new one. Thanks. Yeah. I appreciate that. Anyway, so for a small country, we, we bet way above our weight in terms of motor sports, right? No, the Britain motorcycle, which transformed the world of riding the McLaren F1, you know, McLaren was a Kiwi.

The world's fastest India and Berman Robes. A lot of amazing. Yeah. A lot of you don't know that McLaren was also a New Zealand, a New Zealand founder team and company, but, um, similar, like, um, some of the guys I grew up with, you know, I said this podcast, not knowing what the hell I was doing. And I turned out one of my mates knew Simon Kreyfah because, you know, we're all like, you know, such a small community. Oh yeah. Yes. I'm gonna have a chat with you. couldn't believe it. All right. But we're like, but he's actually one of those guys that actually.

It's very weird that you make friends later in life that would become pretty good mates. And there's only one degree of separation in New Zealand. It's not hard. Most people you'll meet, they'll know someone you know. US, 300 million people. you, you know, obviously our relationship is really strong, but like in terms of, you know, the core friendships you've made, have they come from within the industry?

Angus Norton (28:02.877)
like as the industry become your family in that way, or you mentioned that, know, you have a life outside of motorcycling, like where did, where did the rest of your friends come from? Yeah. Good question. I think, yeah, I think it is easy to gravitate toward friends you have through motorcycling, right? Like you've probably found this that it's you're, you're almost more likely to find someone who shares your values when you both participate in an activity that's.

uncommon, but really, you know, like there's not very many people that ride motorcycles ultimately in population wise. So, um, so it's, it's, it can be easy to connect in that community. Um, but at the same time, I think, maybe this goes back to my sort of view of like, not, uh, I don't know, not, not assuming that that would be the case. You know, like never assuming that people like motorcycles would like me or vice versa. I had a buddy, I lived in San Francisco, had a buddy that I played soccer with. Um, and, uh, he had a brother.

Uh, who I think passed away kind of young, if I remember correctly. Um, and he was into motorcycles and one day my buddy and I were hanging out, like getting lunch sandwiches, whatever. And he said, Oh, he kind of bums me out. I think about this because I feel like if you were met my brother, you'd have been friends with him and not friends with me. And I said, why did you say that? And he says, well, he rode motorcycles and you ride motorcycles. So like, just assumed that you guys would be, you guys would be buddies and that I reflect on that sometimes is because I w and what I told my friend at the time was like, I don't think so. Like I don't.

there are lots of people that ride motorcycles that I don't like, not that I think that they should be in prison or anything like that. just like, we're not the same people. We're not friends. not, we're not, you know, they're motorcyclists encompass all walks of life. And, and so, yeah, I think that that's, that's some things I've sort of learned, but it's an interesting assumption that people make that you would, that you would only ever connect with those people. And to answer your question, you know, like I think my friends come from,

the same place that most people's friends do. come from like college and rec league sports and you know, my wife's friends and friends of friends who we've sort of connected and ended up being good friends because we live in the same city or we have kids the same age or something like that. You know, you have all these sort of small gravitational pulls that influence who you hang out with and who you spend time with. But I certainly feel lucky that

Angus Norton (30:31.765)
the people that I work with, you Spurgeon, specifically on the podcast, High Side the Side podcast, and Aerie specifically with CTXP Adventures, and also our buddy Spencer, who's the producer and director of all the CTXP and On Two Wheels and Throttle Out Adventures that we did. You know, those are, in a lot of ways, my best friends because we spend so much time together, you kind of can't help it.

But I feel fortunate that they have had a good influence on me. I feel like, yeah, I feel like we are, I am, I think, but maybe we are as people more influenced and drawn into styles of behavior by the people around us than we realize. I'm surrounded by people that are very motivated and ambitious and, they challenged me to be a better version of myself all the time. And so that I feel fortunate because.

We spent, we, spend a of time at our jobs. So it's nice to have colleagues that you sort of look up to and respect, guess. Yeah. I, I do believe that birds have a feather flock together. and what's interesting and I'm really curious about that transition to revzilla by the way, cause that company's changed a lot too. it's much more of a corporate now. and you obviously transitioned from a magazine to a, was becoming a bigger corporate. And I'm really, but just to backtrack a little bit on the community thing.

Yeah, this whole other podcast, but, so whenever I meet someone that's into motorcycles and the first thing they say is, let's go for a ride. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to ride with anyone. Yeah. It's like, it's so funny. I'm like, now the tracks different, like, let's go to the track. Yeah, great. But on a public road, I don't want to ride with like, no, I don't want to ride with you. I'm really fucking sorry. I was like, there's maybe two or three people that I'll ride with and it only be two of us at a time.

And this kind of to your point, it's like, don't assume that we all want to go riding, right? How do you feel about that? Like, I'm, also like anti group ride, certainly. I think like, it's interesting to hear you say that a lot of times I attribute this to the people that I do get to ride with, like Ari and I have been on a lot of rides together and we are very comparable skill wise. Uh, and we're also, um, you know,

Angus Norton (32:51.467)
we have a similar style of road trip and riding in general. We tolerate a similar speed on the street. We have a lot of the same ideals. And the same goes for Spencer and for Spurgeon, though I've spent less time riding with him. But also with my dad, I've ridden a bunch with my dad. And we have very similar, probably not coincidence, what with the genetic connection. We have very similar.

styles of, of riding, like how many miles we want to put on in a day and how long we want to stop for lunch and stuff like that. and that has spoiled me rotten. I often ride with other people and I'm like, what are you doing? And it's not that they're doing anything wrong. They're just doing something different than I want to do, you know? and I think that, I see it as a good sign that you don't want to ride with people, not because I think that makes you not because I think it's good to be anti-social or, sort of like,

You know, give people the cold shoulder, but it shows me that you have, you have confidence in foundation in who you are as a rider. know, I worry a little bit about riders that only want to ride when there are other people there. They only want to be surrounded by other people. It's sort of like, not that that's wrong. It's just different than the reason that I appreciate motorcycles. And, so I definitely represent with you on that one for sure.

Yeah, it's a really interesting topic because, you know, we would race Vespers in New Zealand on the track and also on the street would I put an IT 250 piston once into a P 200 Vespa and we would like write the shit out of these things like really fast on the freeways and no gear like just everything was everything was different. And then I did a shit ton of touring around the world and thought I was a pretty good writer. Right.

And then I turned up to my first track day and realized I've been riding the wrong way for 30 years. And I actually started writing track, proper track later in life when I actually listened to people and wanted to learn. so this, this learner's mindset. I find interesting with motorcyclists. and if you can find someone that's willing to learn for me, it just opens up a whole new world of writing that the physics of the physics of writing.

Angus Norton (35:15.921)
the fact that the gyroscope, the fact that all these things about writing, like for you as someone that's a professional and we use what you do for a living. Yeah. like, you, where do you get most of your joy? it from the track or the street? Huh? Was that a hard question to answer? Yeah. Hard question. no, I certainly think, yeah, the learner's mindset thing is interesting. Interesting thing to bring up because that's a, like, you know, you might think that you're

When you started going to the racetrack and, you did a few track days and you're sort of like, I dragged me for the first time. And, and, and you had that sort of adrenaline of being like, wow, cool. I'm leaning over and I'm dragging my knee, just like the guys on TV or whatever. and then there might've been guys at that track day say that we're much faster than you, but they don't have the experience of like riding around on a scooter or riding around the world on a, you know, on dirt roads or touring bikes, adventure bikes, whatever. I would, I would.

venture to say that you're, even though you were slower than some of those people on the track, you were a better rider because you have a, you have a wide resume, right? Being good at one thing doesn't, did you feel that way too? Like, do you feel like you learned quicker because of that maybe? Or did you have any reflections on the way you learned on the track because you had so much other experience? It's a question. Yeah, actually I did definitely learn quicker, but what I found interesting was

At the beginning, I was so focused on going fast. And it wasn't until I realized that actually lines are important. Foundations are important. Writer and putter important. And then one day I'm riding around the track and I thought I was going to have an accident. You know why? Because my leg, my knee was dragging and I wasn't trying to drag it. It just started dragging, which for me, you you spend as many as time I'm going to drag my day. You look kind of stupid because you're all crossed up and you know, but then I started dragging my knee and I shat myself. I'm like, Holy shit.

Oh, I'm dragging my knee because I'm writing well. Right. Right. Right. And then it all comes together and I would have done, let's see, I've done, did 20 track days last year, 25 years before that. I'm an old fat man on a, um, R s 6 60. Oh, have a, I have a Panigale as well. be too, but fee fours are ridiculous. It's stupid. Um, I mean like, yeah, I mean, you know, but yeah. So for you though, I mean, you started out in dirt.

Angus Norton (37:36.141)
And a of the great writers started on the dirt, right? Yeah. Yeah. mean, I think that, you know, to get back to your first question, I kind of, I kind of derailed us there asking you a question, um, you're a journalist. Yeah. kind of can't help it. The whole, like having all those experiences, I definitely think is so important. Like that's how, that's how you get to be better. So like, do I, do I enjoy the track or the street more? don't know. There's like, I enjoy a challenge.

Like one of my favorite things to do on a motorcycle is to learn a new racetrack to be specific. Like that, the Panigale IV4 video that you talked about seeing on Instagram, quick onboard video that I did. That was a track I'd never been to before I did that event. and they gave, I think we had six sessions, five or six sessions that day. and so you got to get up to speed quick, figure it out because you're there to review the bike. And so there's some pressure there and I kind of like that.

I also just love learning my way around a track and like, and going into one corner and be like, okay. That one like tightens up a little bit more. And that opens up a little bit more and there's a little space there. And I need to go in that one a little. I need to go faster into that corner. Okay. I need to do this. I need to that. And all those little adjustments. get such a kick out of that. I absolutely love it. Same thing. If I go to like a, some chicken shit go-kart facility in anywhere in the world and yeah, you're just like, go with friends or something like, cool. Some go-karts let's do go-karts in Portugal or in.

California or Nevada, wherever the heck you are. doesn't matter. and, And I get in the cart and I'm driving around and like they're wobbly and shaky and crappy. And it's, you know, it's like, it's a theme park kind of gag, but I love learning the track trying to figure, okay, this, there's a hairpin and that opens up in this thing. love that. And to, to apply that to the street, I get the same kind of kick when I'm on a new surface or something like that, you know, like you're riding.

an adventure bike, you're riding your GS or your Royal Enfield Himalayan or whatever out in the boondocks and you ride along paved road and then it changes to gravel. it's, it's unlike a gravel that you've ever ridden on before. It's like a little strange. It's like sort of, you know, the chunks of gravel are a little bigger say, or a little looser or, or something than any other surface that you've experienced. And those first few corners of like feeling the tires move on the gravel and, judging the crown of the road and, and all that stuff.

Angus Norton (39:58.153)
Is that triggers the same feeling in my brain? I've just, I really like drinking in that information and, trying to figure it out. Same way as I'd like to try to figure out what's the best line through this corner so that I can get to the next corner. And so on an average commute, when I ride to work, I probably don't get a lot of that. Right. Because I'm riding down the same paved road I rode down for the last three years. Yeah. Memory, muscle memory is fair. Yeah, exactly. And I'm, listening to the radio and, and I'm maybe thinking about some other things while trying to be,

you know, focused on the situation ahead, always like try to have a meditative state and be really, really focused on the cars around me and the situation that I'm in. But I think I'm probably like learning a little bit less in those situations, but there's always opportunity. Even, even on a average day riding the same route you always ride, there's always an opportunity to learn. And I guess that's what I'm always, that's the, that's the sort of like dog chasing a car mentality that I have is I'm sort of like, I, I like logging miles.

for the sake of maybe tripping over one of those experiences where I learned something. Yeah. So, yeah, that's, what I get a kick out of, guess. I feel like we're having a, yeah, like you're definitely my brother and we must have been related because I'm really enjoying the chat. It's funny. Living in Seattle, I actually believe that I'm not right every day here and it rains here. I love to ride, but what I found is interesting is like, Zach is, I actually think riding on the street properly is harder.

And the reason I say that, yeah, is, you know, um, you don't have these big wide, um, tracks. don't have these big apexes to hit your apexes that big. Um, and then you don't, you don't get to study the track in the way you would like the street, the way you would attract. And so, and you don't have 20 minute sessions to go out and perfect the first apex you've ever seen it in your life before on a new road, right. It's.

I ride like a little old man on the street. don't know about you. re I think it's cause I have a son and I just, I ride like a little old man on the street. mean, how about you? Like, ride pretty slow on the street. Yeah. Yeah. I not, I don't ride slow to some people's, know, like I certainly take, I ride sometimes with friends or, I don't know people that I, you know, contacts that I've met and, and, and then I don't ride with very often and they'll say, can we go on a ride together? And I'll be like, you know, no problem. And,

Angus Norton (42:22.325)
And sometimes I overwhelm people with how fast I go because I just feel confident and I've done it for a long time, but I also often ride slower than other people on the street that I feel are probably not as experienced or as good a rider as I am, if I'm being honest, but they ride faster than I do on the street because either that's what they don't, that's the only thing they know or they, or they like the risk of it or something like that. But I, to me, the street, because I've written on the track so much and I appreciate track riding so much closed course riding so much.

The street to me, like you said, it's just a totally different thing. And I definitely ride slow. I w I've been testing recently this, BMW R 12 nine T, and having fun on it, riding around. And I took a ride, up to Malibu, on north side of LA. was lots of twisty roads and I'm riding along twisty roads and the foot pegs start dragging on the bike, which is not all that uncommon for, for bikes, especially the bike. That's not really a true sport bike or anything, you know, and the foot pegs are dragging. I thought like,

My, my, my first thought was kind of like, how can I arrange my body on the bike so that I can lean over more without dragging the foot peg? And then the next thing that occurred to me an instant later was this is probably fast enough. Actually, I don't, know, the foot pegs dragging is not, is not, should not be emblematic of like, what a bad ass I am, but it should be emblematic of that's enough. That's what, that's what you don't need to go faster than that on the street. And if I were on the racetrack, it would be a whole different story. I'd be desperate to lean off more and.

keep the bike upright. And so the foot peg wouldn't drag so that my lap time could be faster or whatever. but on the street, I definitely, there are, there are aspects of riding on the street that I really like. but it's pretty far down the list before I get to speed, you know, speed is not really the thing that I'm on the street to enjoy. It's much more, there, there are lots of other things above, above it on the list. So I'm right there with you. It sounds like we've got the same pace, the little man pace on the street.

Yeah, man. It's, so yeah, two years ago, I had a pretty big, low side at Laguna Seca. Like, know, the bottom of the corkscrew and then you straightened up to go under the bridge. So the bottom of the corkscrew. And then there's the left-hander, the downhill left-hander. Yeah. Yeah. Rainy curve. crashed there. So, well, I got taken out. So there was the first lap, siding lap, first lap of the day. I'd never ridden there before. I'm like,

Angus Norton (44:49.645)
Yeah. And this dude just went straight into the back of me. can send you the video. um, now they say, they say that I'm a tractor or those that have crashed and those that haven't crashed yet. Yes. And this was my first crash on the track. So, and you know, I was like, my son was like, I think six months old at times. I think, and I just said, I'm stopping writing on the street. I'm done with the street. I'm only going to write on the track, even though I crashed. Cause I got that feeling of crashing. Right. I okay, I can stop the street.

I tried to stop the street. just couldn't man. Like I, just, I miss going into the garage and looking at that bike and jumping on it. And do you have those same inner conflicts around it? Cause the track is a safer place, you know, even though I crashed badly there, but I got that feeling of crashing and I've never crashed on the street, even all the time I've been writing. I was like, man, if I've been on the street and there was a truck coming up, he'd gone, you know, and I don't know. you, do you, do you go back and forth on that? Or you just, you know, you're talking about like from a

from a sort of like family man standpoint of, yeah. you ever consider not riding on the street at all and just focusing on track? Yeah, I've, I've entertained that. but first of all, it screwed up my job pretty bad since I'm like, part of what I do is review street bikes. but no, aside from that, I mean, yeah, I've had that, I've, had that thought across my mind and sort of like, yeah, certainly I, I,

Cause yeah, street accidents are scary. and I think it's a, I don't know if this anecdote will do anything for you, but people, remember hearing someone say one time like, Oh, I don't want to, they said some, some pass, some passing comment. Like, I don't want to think about what would happen if I went wide in that turn or something like that. And my, in my head, immediately I thought, I always think about what would happen if I went wide in that turn.

That's so important. You have to think about what would happen if you went wide in that turn, or if you, if you're going through right, a right-hander on a twisty mountain road and what if there's a tractor stopped just out of sight from wherever you are? Can you stop? Can you avoid it? Can you, are you in a good position to, make that decision or to, to, help yourself in that, in that moment? And it's gruesome. I find myself having really gruesome thoughts when I ride, you know, but I think that that, that, that, is an important, you know, not even a reality check, but a

Angus Norton (47:14.359)
fantasy check, if you will, of, you know, I sort of, I do a lot of imagining what would go wrong. And I think that helps me realize the lanes that I need to be in figuratively in my own head. so part of it is maybe an addiction because I like riding on the street and I like, like I said, the challenge of it. And it's a part of my life and my lifestyle and my job at this point. But, but I also think that it's a,

It's also, it's a mental and sort of psychiatric challenge that I like too, to sort of be real with yourself about what's important and what's not. And as far as the family aspect, you know, that's the thing that weighs heavily on me. also have a young son and certainly I think about that. But my wife and I met,

sort of at a motorcycling event that she's not a tried and true motorcyclist, but she's a, she was in the motorcycle industry sort of tangentially briefly. And I met her there and she backpacked around the world alone in her twenties for more than a year. which is a dangerous thing to do as a young woman. and you know, she's been to ever space camp and she climbed Mount Kilimanjaro and she took trains across India and she did things that were difficult and, objectively dangerous.

And one of the things we talked about when we had a kid was, you know, trying to balance, safety and prudence in being a parent and being a provider for a young human being while also being very much yourself so that you are providing an example of what you think a person should do in their life, not specifically, but broadly having enthusiasms and ambition and,

And wanting to be good at things and developing skills and following things that you love is a, that's something that we want our son to, to grow up seeing and feeling. And, the danger of it is the weighs on me, but maybe not more than how much it frightens me. The idea of him growing up in a sterile kind of environment void of any, you know, feelings or risk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Angus Norton (49:38.603)
Yeah. I'm, I'm glad you raised that. And I'm also glad you raised your wife and took about your wife. Cause, you know, without just, I gotta make sure I save us in the right way. If I was saying like a dirty old man. so I had, so I was raised by, by my mom. So I saw my mom. So I was sort of raised with a sort of deep respect for, you know, I know in the modern world, we don't say men and women, cause there's all types of people, but the role of a strong woman in my life, I was my mother. Right. And.

One of the reasons I actually started the podcast to start with is I actually want to interview people who are from diverse backgrounds that are doing well or want to do well on motorcycling. so my first interview was with Mallory Dobbs, who's a Moto America racer. Right. know the name. Yep. Yep. And Misty Hurst, who is a coach at the California Superbike School, but it was also a racer, you know, a long time back. Cause she just liked me saying that cause she doesn't want to sound like I'm making her sound old.

Anyway, and I also recently interviewed Kayla Yakov, who I'm sure you know, and is doing amazing. mean, that kid is like, she's like another level. I'm curious, do you like, I'm not as experienced in racing as you are. Like I show, write a race, I write in the A group and kind of mid pack. It's pretty good. I like it, you know, but like, what is it? Do you think there will be a day when a woman can compete?

At the highest level. I'm not talking motor to a motor three. I'm talking motor GP. Like, what do you think about? Like, what is it? I don't understand why they should, that they shouldn't come and why hasn't it come? I think about that a lot. Well, I, did you ask Kayla this question? Yeah, I did. And she said like, first of all, I don't want to race in women's competitions. Right. Sure. Right. I want to race with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's a six, 17 year old right. Right.

And like, she could go and ride on these women's competitions, but she chooses not to because she's like, no. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I'm well, I'm glad you asked her that question because I don't know that I feel, uh, qualified to answer the question about whether or not, you know, how a woman will succeed in motorcycle racing. But my dad and I, tell you that my dad and I've had these conversations, the long road trips to races for years and years. And one of the things we talked about was, um, was, uh, was, uh, yeah, was female racers and sort of like,

Angus Norton (52:03.691)
why they haven't had more success because it's an interesting thing. with, it's curious on the face of it. I think the reason, maybe this is part of the driver of your question is that, you know, like why doesn't, why doesn't a woman play in the NBA just to like random sport? It's easy to, it's easy to point to the fact that women are, generally not as tall, generally can't jump as high.

this, why there's a, there are physiological and physical differences between men and women, which is why there has historically been separation in sports, whether it's swimming, basketball, whatever. but motorcycle racing doesn't really fall into that. don't think, and I, I would guess I would, I wonder actually if Kayla would say the same thing that. That it is a physical sport to ride a motorcycle fast. You, you, need to be strong and aggressive, but not in a way that a woman can't. It's not like.

It's not like you have to be seven feet tall or it's not like you have to, you know, run a, a hundred meters in a certain time or something like that. It's a, it's, it's really. Not, there isn't a physical barrier. I don't think. and, I certainly don't think that there's a, psychological barrier. Like women can be just as competitive and fierce as men that are, wanting to win and that kind of thing. So it's, it's really interesting. I think she is a real beacon.

for for the sport because I think she's proven that it's not that that the gender doesn't really need have anything to do with anything with with motorcycles. I I think it's gotta be just it's more of a cultural thing at this point, right? It's more that like boys like to chase a ball more than girls do or like you know, boys are probably more encouraged to ride motorcycles when they're young and they're more encouraged to race them when they're teenagers and and we're seeing that change. think fortunately but

But I think that she's proof that, there isn't any reason that, that a woman can't succeed in motorcycle racing. Cause I don't really think there are obvious barriers in from, from a physical standpoint or mental standpoint or anything. I think it's all kind of cultural and who we choose to support. So I love, I really hope that she, I hope that there are lots of little girls right now looking at her and going, like there, I don't need, I don't need there to be a.

Angus Norton (54:31.435)
girls class or women's class, you know, like I can. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Kayla. You should, you should interview her. She's, she's good. Yeah. I can make the introduction. I'm she'd love to meet you. Her dad is a great guy too. And, he was telling me that like the, times that she was putting the lap time she was putting up in Europe were faster than the woman who won the women's FIM super sport champion, championship this year. Right. Okay. But she was, she was too young first of all, to race in that Kayla. So she couldn't. Yeah. But

I don't think she wants to. And I agree. I don't think there's any, I think in my lifetime, we'll see someone in the motor GP class. Um, I will tell you a bit of a track days. do girls kick my ass all day long. There's a bunch of them and they're fast. And, I should also do a shout out for Haley. Thank you Haley for introducing me to you. Cause Haley's one of those women in the motorcycle that I love. Yeah. These kids, Right. Yeah. I she's a kid to me. Right. And so like these kids are just into writing, you know, and she moved to LA, I think. Um, she's like into it.

I also want to be respectful of your time, by the way. So I don't want to go forever, but, No, go for it. I'm enjoying the chat. I'm in, I'm enjoying, you know, pontificating on, on women in motorcycling. I'm sure all the women listening really appreciate my point of view. Another 40 year old white man telling how he feels. It's a, it's it's interesting. Well, yeah, for sure. I think we actually, I actually think all minorities, regardless of whether it's motorcycling, benefit from the person in the majority knowing that

that it's unfair and wanting to do something about it. And I think if you can be that voice and that advocate. The other thing I love is, you know, young dads now who have daughters, you know, in my day, it be like, oh, you've got a daughter. I hope you have a shotgun. you, you know, if you guys that want to date, you, know, my mates are like, no, no, I'm raising strong women. They don't need a man to take care them. I'm raising strong women. I think, I think that's part of the cultural thing you're talking about is it's that like,

No, like we're raising a generation of really strong women and they can do anything right now. There are some things that I get it's harder than others, but it's a good topic, man. Like, did you follow the FIM championship in Europe this year? The women's, uh, super sport championship, the women's one I didn't know. And that's not because has to do with women. didn't call the world's super bike either, um, or British super bike or other series that are awesome. And I can't find the time to do it. Um, I, I, I sort of like, hang on to, um,

Angus Norton (57:01.377)
With by my fingernails, the, try to keep up with, Moto GP, just cause I don't know. That's the series I sort of find myself most interested in and the personalities and the technology and stuff like that. there are lots of series that I don't pay attention to it. It's only because I don't have the time for it. but I, think it's, I guess it's a good thing, you know, like I'm, I guess I'm conflicted. I don't know. Like, what do you think? I feel like it's great that there's a platform, but also I probably have, I don't know. I wouldn't, guess I, I, I admire so much.

the, the Kayla Yakov, uh, outlook of like, I don't know. just want to race against racers. I don't, you know, I had a buddy one time, um, years ago who he was a club racing friend. We raced, uh, know, amateur, um, super sport stuff and club racing and, um, and he, there's always this thing about like, um, kind of hangers on in the amateur, like the, the club we raised and actually had three tiers. was amateur and then there was

Junior novice and junior and expert, right? So there were three tiers to work your way up to an actual expert number plate and expert races racing against the, the, the fastest people. And there were always these kind of hangers on who would like stay in the novice category so that they could like win the championship or like, know, so that they could be the fastest novice, you know, and my buddy at the time had this outlook of like, I don't want to be measured against the people who have the same color number plate as I do. I want to be measured against.

the best people that are riding the same kind of bike that I'm riding. That's what I want to do. And I personally have never won a club racing championship. Like I raced RS 125 for years, never won that championship. I raced a GSXR 600 and R6 for years at 600 CC Super Sport. And I never won a championship in any class. it's not like I am proud that that's a badge I wear proudly, but I am much, much, much more proud of

finishing second in the 600 CC expert championship than I ever was winning a novice race. know? Yeah, sure. And yeah, I, I, yeah, I appreciate it. And when it has that outlook, I are you, so are you a competitive person? like whether it's in sports career, like you name it. Yeah. yeah, I think, yeah.

Angus Norton (59:27.115)
I have that, I have that bone in my head for sure. I think that that edge dulls a little bit as you get older, maybe, cause you don't have the same rush of, of, of hormones, I when you, when you're in competition, like I think about some of the ways that I used to compete and I think, holy mackerel, like, don't think I'd ever be in that mindset right now, you know? but I certainly have that. I think you kind of need to, you know, I had someone reach out to me on Instagram the other day and they said, I'm a, a, I'm a rider.

I've been going to track days. getting faster, but I'm like really struggling to get to that next level. Like, how do I get, how do I lean over more? How do I break later? How do I do that stuff? And my quick answer then was race. I've never, I've never had a greater motivator than wanting to beat the person that's ahead of me. I that's, that's the thing that'll make you go faster. If you want to learn to break later, go into a corner next to someone. And if you don't care that they get to the apex first, then this whole thing's not for you.

Um, yeah, but you will, I bet you will, I bet you will care that that person is going to try to get to that apex first and you're going to want to do it. And so you'll do whatever it takes to break later and figure it out. And I certainly have that those triggers in my head. And I think that's a, I mean, it's a fascinating, fascinating part of the human psyche. Um, and, but, also crucial for, um, for my enjoyment of motorcycles definitely is to like have that competitive feel. Yeah. It's funny. Cause, um, I'm actually not super competitive. Um,

And I'm actually believe it. No one believes this, but I'm actually an introvert. I'm at an expressive introvert, but, um, it's just that I communicate pretty well as people think, Oh shit. Um, and, um, we have kind of this old man category too, that we raised center of the rich motorsport park here, which is our local. and I'll, see kids that have come or even older guys who've come from the street and sort of, you know, on the ship and they'll after the first session, they, they're so tired. They can't even walk. And right. And so I'll go and talk to them. I'm like, Hey man, like,

There's two groups. One group is, I've been writing for 20 years. I've got it. The other group is I want to learn. I'm like, okay. The reason you're tired is because you're like gripping onto the bars. You're like, you're not relaxed. know, like I'm an old fat guy in my fifties and I'll do like six sessions a day and like for three days in a row sometimes. And I'm tired, but I'm not as tired as I used to be through having a learner's mindset. Right. So I've done, yeah. Yamaha champ school. I'm a big fan of California. So you're like school. I've done Hill stuff.

Angus Norton (01:01:51.341)
Like in your mind, does, where does instruction is instruction important? Like what advice would you have for this is kind of getting a little bit of, um, high side low side, I suppose. But what advice would you have for someone of moderate means that has riding on the street for a while that wants to go to a track for the first time. they get instruction from day one, which they just go out there and did it rip. Like what would you. Good question. I'm curious about that one. Before I answer that, I have a question for you, which is, say, you said you're not really competitive person.

No, I'm I'm competitive. I'm like, I don't have a time lap timer on my bike because I'm, I'm more, I'm more focused on how I feel in the, in the flow. like, I like, I'll see guys that go really meditative kind of like, you're after it. Like what, do you get your kicks? If it's not from like, get faster than I did last time. Okay. So it's like skiing. like, I'm a kind of an expert skier and I love the feeling of hitting all my lines, all my flags. And I know when I get them out of the hill, I guess, no, I nailed it.

And on the bike, it's the same. So I'll see guys and it's competing with myself. I'll see guys that post these videos on YouTube on the track of how great they are. And they miss every single apex. And I'm like, okay, well, I would, I love the feeling of being technically excellent and looking at my videos. That's what gets me going. And I get excited and I'm doing like under two minute lap time at the ridge. Now it's not it's fast, but it's not like super fast, but it's a group fast. And, two years ago, I was like a two 30.

So I'm like, there, that's how I get it. I get good at myself, Zach. You know, see. Sure. Yeah. Have you been to a rich? Have you, have you written at the rich? have not. No, I've heard it's great. I'd love to try it. Uh, I've never been there. Come up. I'll give you a bike. I've got a Trofeo. I've got a, uh, a pretty, a Trofeo. Okay. Yeah. I've got a V2 Panigale and then I've got a stock RS six 60 as well. You can come up and grab a bike. I'll take your writing, but anyway, you're going to, yeah, seriously, you should come up.

That's a, that's a lovely offer. That's a hard to turn down. So I appreciate it. Well, that's interesting. I think it's fascinating that you were, so you do get some joy out of going faster, but it's more about the feeling of going faster and the appreciation of going faster than it is like the lap time. And I think that's, that's totally fair. Like, it's like a, that's, that is really kind of what we're all after. It's just that if you can look at data, you can tell yourself that, that it happened.

Angus Norton (01:04:15.597)
Whether that's Um, I can appreciate where you're coming from. Yeah. And it's great. You mentioned data, right? So I do look at the data, like I, and so when I do use a lap timer, it's more, less about the total time. It's more about where I can make up time in the corners. Right. that, um, so the whole physics of it. So as for the question of whether someone should get instruction, um, I would say no, I've said this recently to people who have asked the same question, just go to the track and ride around.

Just go see if you like it and what you like and that kind of thing. And if you see, if you feel, this sort of like spur of, of, of like ambition to go faster and you want to learn more than I think that's a, you know, like getting instruction is a good idea. but really like what people benefit from the most, I think at the track and learning at the track is good influence. And really that's what track day instructors should be providing.

from a broad view, from a broad perspective is good influence, right? Like good practices, good etiquette, stuff like that. Good things to focus on and, and, you know, like, methods to learn rather than like, this is how you do it. Like you, you like, don't hit the brakes until this point and then turn in at this point. That's not what it is. Right. It's really more like about methodology and, sort of learning to trust yourself and trust the bike and trust the tires and trust the process.

so, yeah, I, but to answer your question, I would say if you haven't done it before, just go and try it and see what you think and then take it from there. that's cool. Yeah. Maybe get a control. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's just my, no, no, ask everyone this question by the way. And I asked races. asked, I've lost, I asked Mallory this question. Actually, she's like, said the same thing as you. but I would also maybe say like, get a control writer to tow you around.

like some of the track, the organizations are great. I think we have track time who are really great. I mean, there's a bunch of others, but just, yeah, I just say, get a control to tow you around and yeah, that's a good influence. Yeah. I mean, like, just like learning where to go is a pretty crucial piece of it. And if you're new to a track and you're in the slowest group, following other people around is unfortunately probably not the best idea because they don't know what they're doing either. and this goes back to that conversation about side cars, right? Like that's how I.

Angus Norton (01:06:38.413)
first started going around tracks was like, you know, like, you know, side cars, you're like leaning in the right hand corners on our, we had a right hand chair. like in right hand corners, I'm like leaning out the side car over the apex. And I'm sort of like watching the track come at me, but as transition into a left-hand corner, I would go up over the back wheel of the side car and, uh, and be literally looking over my dad's shoulder, like as he was, um, yeah, like as he was going through corners and like, there's just no more.

It was the original GoPro. Like there's, there's no, there's no better or more immersive way to like learn your way around a track. So I was super lucky in that sense, but a lot of people get to go to the track and they don't have that. Um, in fact, most people go to the track and don't have that. So yeah, to your point, that's why a control rider is like, it is so crucial and such a good idea. Well, I suppose you should probably start working and closing things down, but man, I'm, really enjoyed chatting.

It's been awesome. we can just go for the world's longest podcast and how much time, you know, you go to like 10 PM tonight and just like, see if people listen to it. Yeah. And it's funny. Like, I've got a mate of mine, Rick, who's done a few podcasts for me and he's been interviewing some of the really seasoned California, Sue bike school instructors. and so he did a literally has done six hours of recording with James Tui, who you might know James James's name. Yeah. One of the most senior, I mean, Johnny, who's the head of the coaching program.

And like, I'm the guy that has to edit it because I'm not a professional like you, Zach. I actually had to do it myself. I know you have edits, right? But, but I, I'm going to like, I want to sort of close you a few things. Like what was the last bike you rode? Cause I watch all of your, I watch all of your daily rider stuff. And there's a few trademarks here. You've got that little laugh that you do, which is classic. Like, don't have, you don't want to talk about, right? It's like the giggle, right? Ready everybody?

you

Angus Norton (01:08:36.107)
You got to trademark that shit, man. That's cool. It's like, you know, like the, let's get ready to rumble guy. You know how he trademarked that? yeah. He trademarked it. You got to trademark that shit. Like I know you ride bikes on the daily rider, but like, what's the last bike that you rode that you just couldn't stop thinking about and wanted to go by like, Ooh, but I wanted to go. Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough one.

Um, well, two bikes stand out from this year, from 2024. one is the bike that I just stopped riding today, which is the BMW R 12 90. I, it's the first bike in a long time that I went on Craigslist and I looked for BMW R 90s from 2014 to 20, uh, yeah, 2014 to 2020. think that was the sort of like.

two generations in there that I kind of and they had this really garish well down the middle of the gas tank. And, and I just remember really liking that bike. The new bike is good in a lot of the same ways, but also it's kind of like softer around the edges. And somebody said it like, point is the reason I like that bike is not because it's God's gift to motorcycle. It just speaks to me big time because it's. I like how kind of, I like the classic look. I like the round headlight. like the sort of shapely tank and, and the, and the old style,

BMW boxer, you the oil head boxer. grew up in a, in a BMW household. You know, I grew up with my dad riding BMWs of the sixties and seventies airhead BMWs. and so that style of engine really kind of speaks to me, the character of the engine speaks to me. feels like, a, a modern interpretation of the bike that I would have built in my head when I was 11 years old or something like that, you know? because it was like partially my dad's dream and partially my dream, you know, based on that influence.

And I could see myself owning one of those bikes and enjoying riding it because I like the way it smells like oil when you park it and it sort of like twists and snorts like a, like a sort of semi-feral horse. I like, I like, like that way. Yeah. Yeah. Goosies. The same kind of thing. Yeah. And my dad loves Goosies for the same reason. but anyway, the nine T is something that I did catch myself shopping for. and the other bike this year was that KTM eight 90 SMT, which,

Angus Norton (01:11:02.645)
was, I mean, just like that bike is just right up my alley. That's exactly what I think it's, it's brushing up, not that it's a perfect motorcycle or perfectly executed product, but the concept of it is brushes up against perfection in motorcycling. As far as I'm concerned, it's like, it's comfortable on the highway. can like, you could ride the thing anywhere. You could take off bone stock across the country and probably be perfectly happy if all you did was 80 mile an hour super slab. And also it's like,

rowdy and it does wheelies and it's agile and it's the tall. has good suspension. It's good for a city. It's good for the country. It's like, you can put saddlebags on it. It's just like, it's a, it's a, it's almost, you know, the, jack of all trades master of none is the classic sort of BMW GS thing. I just feel like, I don't realistically ride in the dirt. live in cities. I don't, that's not a thing I do. So having basically like a, an ultra versatile pavement bike.

is my dream and that KTM 890 SMT was wicked. You and I share that because that is on my list too. And actually, so I'm a big fan. think one of the most underrated motorcycles in that sort of category is always been the Multistrada V2 or 950. I still like to be able to go down a highway and be curious. So you're curious about what's down that fucking dirt road.

And yeah, to go down there, but not need to have the big fuck off, you know, adventure bike. Um, and I actually have a new Honda, I have the new Honda Africa twin, which has a 19 inch front, which actually is very, very capable road right now, much more capable. So I'll tell you my bike, the one bike. And I wrote it yesterday. I was just screaming all of the whole time. My local dealer has a really good deal on a 2023 Ninja 1000 SX H2. Okay.

Yep. Holy shit. I saw you ride the roads to version of it. the naked one. Yeah. But the SX one is whole, my God. This thing I'm like, I have no need for it, but it just, cause I rode the Ninja 1000 SX, the non H2, which is also I, the reason I like sports bikes like that on the street, probably similar to you is I like feeling like I'm connected to the motorcycle. Whereas on an ADV, I'm like a human sale.

Angus Norton (01:13:25.133)
You know, and I like, I want to feel connected to the fucking motorcycle, man. I don't want to be like, like just a passenger on it. Sure. Sure. Right. That's fair. That's very fair. And yeah, the Ninja 1000 is a great bike. Um, but the, the, the, the sort of like H2 SX version, the supercharged one really takes it up a notch and that's fair. It's that engine is, is pretty addictive. The IRS is nice too. The BMW IRS, the 12, I think that's underrated up 12 50 RS. Yeah. Yep.

Those models are always underrated and they don't. My only problem with it is like, would probably just get a GS. I don't, I don't know what an RS does for me that a GS doesn't, guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. But, and, but, so I think that's why it's underrated because not for me and people buy it. And then when you ride one, you're like, wow, if it's not, if it doesn't have a huge handlebar and like crash bars all over it, it's actually a pretty nice bike. Like it's lighter and smaller and lower and everything. Well, you know, I want to thank you because I think,

You know, it's easy to like run up sort of do a podcast of a person that is, you know, in this new modern world, there are these things called influences, apparently. I'm too old to understand what they do. I see a lot of influencers that don't know shit, but they have lots of followers. You're not that type of person. Like, you know, shit. And, what was really cool is I get to, I got to learn about you. Um, like everyone knows, you know, I think I'm about motorcycles given, but we talked about motorcycles, but it was really cool just getting to know you man. I'm.

I probably listened to every high side, low set post podcasts. I'll tell you that you've never once replied to one of my emails. Fuckers. I mean, trying to get a t-shirt. Um, and, um, and I have written reviews, um, and I love your shit. So, uh, um, thank you, man. yeah. Well, now that I've been on your podcast, I'll send you a t-shirt now that I know that, now that I know you want one, uh, I'll send you, um,

I'll send you a key motor to your shirt, but just so you know, I only wear black is the only color I ever wear. So it's black. I can work. Okay. And, regardless, like, as you know, from the beginning, this thing is, uh, kind of a bit of fun for me. It's not my day job. And so it's, it's just cool to, and quite frankly, an honor to meet you and, your career is going so well. And I can't wait to be like an arrest home as an old man. When you're about my age and I'll be reading your shirt and going, Oh yeah, I remember him. know,

Angus Norton (01:15:52.825)
I'll probably be next to you in the same rest home looking at the same thing. I remember that guy. Uh, yeah. Well, I, I appreciate it. It's been, it's been fun talking to you about bikes and life and so on and so forth. And, I hope at some point we can, um, share, share, right. Maybe, maybe we don't like group rides either of us, but, but we can, we can tolerate each other long enough to go on a ride or share the track or something like that. That'd be fun. No, and I mean that like, hold me to it. I've got a fucking garage for the motorcycles.

If you can get yourself up here, come and do a track day and I'll provide the most. Are you just going to get up here? All right. All right. That's a, that's a, that's an awfully generous offer. you. You'll, you'll kick my ass, but I'll enjoy what I'll enjoy chasing you. I'll, I'll, won't make any cheap jokes. Oh, good. That's good. Thank you. That's yeah. That's that's even more respect now. See that's awesome. And they say hello to Spurgeon dumb bar.

for me. I will. He's all grown up now. He's a he's a dad and everything. It's weird. I'm trying to picture him as a dad. no mini spurge. There's another spurgeon in the world. Spurgeon floating around the pond. Or a bad Hey, happy holidays to you, Zach. Likewise. Thanks for the time.