Dave Moss: How to Get Your Motorcycle Suspension Right

Dave Moss has built his reputation setting up motorcycle suspension for riders across North America. He shows up at track days and events, puts bikes on stands, and makes them handle better. Thousands of riders have had their bikes transformed by a Dave Moss setup.

In this episode, Dave explains how suspension actually works, why most stock settings don't suit real-world riders, and what you should be feeling through the bike when things are right versus wrong. We also talk about sag, damping, spring rates, and the mistakes riders make when trying to adjust their own suspension.

This one is technical but accessible. You don't need an engineering background to follow along and use what Dave teaches.

Transcript

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Angus Norton (00:11.278)
Well, hey everyone, it's great to see you all again. So some of you may have noticed that over the last few months, I really transitioned from doing a lot of bike reviews and gadget reviews, parts reviews, which I think are still cool and interesting, to interviewing interesting characters that I've come across in the world of motorcycling. And when I founded this channel back in January of 2024,

Really, I just set the channel up for bit of fun, sort of shits and giggles because a lot of folks have told me that while I have a face for podcasts, maybe there might be some interesting learnings that I've had from my 30 plus years of riding on the street and on the track that some might be interested in hearing about. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized how many interesting people I've gotten to meet over the years. So...

I've been doing a lot more interviews of interesting people from all walks of the motorcycling world. many of you have emailed me telling me how useful that is. My intent has always been to share my knowledge and the knowledge of others. And so in that vein, our next interview is with Dave Moss. Now I've known Dave for a long time since before I started the channel and I've always affectionately known or called him the suspension whisperer.

And there's a movie called The Horse Whisperer that some of you may have seen that I kind of refer to when it comes to Dave. Because when I look at the forums and I think about what's happening, I look at the discussions online and the community especially, some of the most popular topics are around suspension setup and tires. And there really is, to me, it feels like a dark art to all of this. Although, assures me it's very simple. Here's a great way of making all of this stuff sound really simple.

So Dave is known for his expertise in suspension tuning and he's renowned for doing that for many decades. And he's offered his services to riders of all levels from casual enthusiasts to professional racers. And when you talk to Dave, you can tell it's his passion. And he often talks about he's in the business of saving lives and nothing could be even more on point when it comes to Dave and how he thinks about suspension.

Angus Norton (02:32.287)
has his own company, Dave Moss Tuning, where he offers online training and online suspension tuning, remote tuning, which I personally used during the pandemic when I was setting up my track bike. And it was incredibly valuable and amazing how much you can get done with a few tools and a great consultant to guide you. And in my case, that was Dave.

He has a really diverse background in motorcycle racing and he's worked with numerous teams and riders. And he's a very hands-on practical approach to advice to those riders and also the community. He's a very methodical approach. He often focuses on those incremental adjustments and rider feedback to achieve those results. So it's one of those things where you work with them over time. it really is almost encyclopedic how much he knows about the relationship of

tires, suspension and many things as it pertains to this gyroscope that we sit on when we ride our motorcycle. So we're going to talk a little bit about Dave's early life and interests. We're going to talk about his career path and about his company. And I really hope that you enjoy this interview because he has so much to share and he's always so generous with his thoughts and ideas. He's a top bloke. So let's get over and have a chat to Dave.

Good day Dave, it's good to see you again mate. Always a pleasure to see you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate the opportunity to join you and have a conversation. Yeah, well so do I and you know last time I saw you was the end of last season at Thunder Hill and the Dave Moss fan club were out in forts and

We went for a ride up over the hill, down to the back track and all your fans are waiting to talk to you. And it just reminded me of how loved you are in the community of motorcycling globally. And also kind of like a brother from another mother because we both played rugby and we both love going to New Zealand and I happen to be from New Zealand. So maybe there's something special going on there. But Dave, why don't you introduce yourself? I know a lot of people know who you are, but

Angus Norton (04:52.461)
Tell us about who you are and where you're from and what you do. And we'll just sort of start painting that picture from from earlier stages in your career. maybe you can teach us a thing or two about I call you the suspension whisperer. And so I'm looking forward to drilling into that a bit. Yeah, absolutely. Born in Manchester in the UK.

Every Tuesday and Thursday you had to go to school with a scarf around your mouth because they backfired the chimneys. So it was when we grew up it was iron, coal and steel. So Manchester was a filthy town at the time. Even actually played rugby, you'll laugh at this, on a coal slag that was the the field. They just graded out all this coal dust and we played rugby on it one time. So up in Sheffield.

Angus Norton (06:10.829)
and then played it from then until I was 42 when I eventually had to give it up because my body was just worn out. motorcycles came early. I was almost born in a sidecar. The water broke in the sidecar, Allegedly. Allegedly. I don't know. And at that point, when things were sensible, there was three kids.

in the sidecar and mom and dad on the bike and we'd go everywhere like that because that was okay because people use common sense. And then eventually that of course had to go away because as a family we got bigger and I got my I was riding motorcycles on and off the entire time from even being very small but seriously got into it when I could get my license at 16 and I've had motorcycles ever since.

But rugby was by far my greatest passion at the time. And eventually reached my dream, which was to play against the All Blacks and managed to get that, which was, I never thought would be even remotely possible, but got that accomplished. And then the doctor said, if you keep playing, your spine will detach from your hip. So I trained really hard for another four years.

to keep going, keep going, and keep going. And then I physically lost the step. And those that play rugby know exactly what that means. And at that point, the towel didn't come out, but I decided I'd go look for something else. And after a year of bouncing around different sports I did throughout my life between kayaking, rock climbing, and all kinds of other stuff, I ended up at the racetrack in Portland, Oregon, and just sat around and

looked at everything and went, this is really cool. I still love this. And just sat around with people and just chatted to them. And then a couple of months later, I think I came back, found the oldest guys I could find and fed them scotch and beer and said, I'm going to sit and I'm going to listen, but I'm basically a fly on the wall. I'm like, well, why are you doing that? So because I'm thinking about starting racing, I'm thinking about it, but I can't.

Angus Norton (08:39.223)
think about it properly without all the right information and who's got it all you do. You're all these guys here and you're still racing. So there's the alcohol and joy. I'm just going to take notes for it. So for the rest of that season, I literally took notes and all that came up was suspension and tires, suspension and tires, suspension and tires over and over and over until I thought they were actually taking the piss and having fun.

at my expense because they pre-planned it. And then I went and just dropped in on other riders that were at the top of their class. And it was the same conversation. I'm watching mechanics turn adjusters and look at geometry. And I went, actually, for all those that win, this is everything. So I forced an internship in a motorcycle company, walked in.

that

built it, broke it, built it, got better than it, built it, and just kept evolving. And very quickly, within my first race season, I was on the podium. I'm a pretty average rider in the grand scheme of things, to be honest. Otherwise I'd be doing Motro America and AMA. But I could get on the podium because of the bike.

And the interesting thing was that the timing of making your opposite number go the direction you want to go. So you get by them and make them move was identical to making a pass in a race and navigating through traffic. So all of a sudden to me, peripherally and in front of my eyes, it was just like being on the rugby field. So the puzzle was the camaraderie and the paddock.

Angus Norton (10:58.327)
was exactly the same as the rugby club. There's no difference at all. So very quickly I fit right in and then people were coming to me going, how'd you get in the box? So cause I'm making the bike work for me. Can you help me? Sure. Cause if, if I'm helping you, we're going to have better racing. be elbow to elbow and we'll have a great time and it'll be a lot more fun. And, that started.

everything to do with learning about suspension and tires and tire reading and all the other stuff and then just became a journey which turned into a career. That was in 1995 when I started. So you got involved with the GP suspension. By the way, I had GP suspension in my Panigale and I'll actually later on in this I'm going to show you some of my tire wear because I thought we could do a bit of a virtual session.

so folks could see how you work with people. Cause I want to talk a bit about that cause I've been a customer of yours. did you, did you start like a four-way into the suspension and tire business before you were racing or after or during your racing career? when, know, yeah. Immediately. Okay. the very, very first minute. Okay. Because it's interesting because a lot of people I meet who are

You're one of these people that knows a lot of things about a lot of things. And I've got a lot of friends like that in motorcycling that I've met. I found that having that learner's mindset and listening was like a really important skill. And so you found you learned from some of the old guys on the paddock. You felt the camaraderie of the paddock, which I completely see. But then you also talked about sort of traffic.

that

Angus Norton (13:22.453)
very, very similar, to be honest. didn't even think about that in regards to what that's like. So I think the other piece of the puzzle that really helped me a great deal was my police background in building a big story from the center out, because all you're trying to do is piece information together. So what I really learned about that, especially with tuning today, not to jump ahead, but

just approaching a race, what's the weather like? What's the wind like? Is it going to change? What are the conditions like? A full almost emergency services overview of a situation you're going to immerse yourself in, where are your priorities, what you're going to do, how you're going to do it. And then I would go out into the hot pit and get ready for the race. So there's quite a bit of the police background that became extremely useful matched with

my college coach that said to win you have to be clinically ruthless to take a team apart because you have to find the weak link exploit it then find the next one and see how that ripples through the opposition and take them apart. That's interesting so a common theme I'm hearing for a lot of people who are sort of at the top of their game and what they do is a very common theme I hear is like have a plan have a plan have a plan it's

Really interesting, I interviewed an old mate of mine, the other day. He's super fast and he's an ex-physics teacher and he thinks like everything is physics to him, the gyroscope and how a bike works. But he's always like, people just don't plan. They get on the track without a plan. And it sounds like you've been very planful. So you started out, your background as a kid in the UK, got into sports, obviously competitive from being in sports, played at the highest level.

a minute because I think a lot of people don't understand suspension at the basic level and then maybe we can go through the journey of how the technology has evolved and also how the sophistication of what you do has evolved and so maybe just treat me like a two-year-old so I know that when most people buy a motorcycle it's set up especially the bikes I like as you know you've done a few of my bikes they're made for skinny Italians that weigh about half my weight but they

Angus Norton (15:47.095)
They don't really, they kind of expect the bike to be set up and out. ride and they wonder why it's not doing anything for them. So just, can you explain like that, like to a two year old, like a two year old, like what does, what does, what does the front, what are the front forks do? What are the rear forks do? What is sag? What is preload at a very high level? And then maybe we can get, build the sophistication blocks up a bit. Sure. basically if you stretch the bike as high as it'll go.

That's a number where you fully extend the suspension and then you put the bike on the floor and stand it up and then use the same two fixed points to measure. And that's the bike sitting under its own weight. So free sag is the extension piece and the bike sits under its weight. So that's bike sag. And then you put the rider on it. And then there's another measurement with those same two fixed points for the rider. So you get three.

two measurements.

And then you get a total number at the end. So at that point, if, for example, you have 120 mil of suspension travel, you want 30 % of that. So you'd want to see somewhere around 40 mil. Now, for those who don't do millimeters, you're looking at inch and a half, somewhere in that range. If you don't compress it that much,

you're getting bounced out of the seat the whole time. If you compress it way over that, then you have no suspension left and you getting bounced out of the seat all the time because it's too soft versus too hard. And the kicker on that is nobody is trained or told to use their eyes. So if you put a cable tie in the front fork, you can see how much travel you use. If you put a bit of grease on the rear shock shaft, which is inside the spring,

Angus Norton (17:48.127)
It gives you a dust ring so you can see how much travel you use. And at that point, it's astonishing how many people say this bike's too hard when it's too soft because they're not trained to use their eyes. So part one is the grease on the shock shaft, people tie in the forks. Honestly, when you ride the ride, you ride the pace, you ride the roads, you know, how much travel do you use? That's the first part. And that's really the simplest piece.

And the absolute foundation, if you want to learn suspension, because if you can't see it, it's ethereal and it's really hard to understand because it's conceptual. But if you can see it or touch it, it makes it much easier for everybody irrespective of whether you're right or left brained. Cable tie is in that position and the dust ring is in that position. And that's a non-negotiable. It's an absolute truth. So from a very, very basic.

level. Some people are really, really good on a bike, horribly naturally talented, which is very frustrating. I see that. And others, others just ride around and have a good time and can ride pretty damn well and go to the track for the fast stuff. And then there are people that just literally want to get out of the house, Zen out, go ride in the countryside, just shut the world off.

and just ride for the sheer pleasure of that. And those three types of people on the same bike, irrespective of their weight, will definitely use more or less travel. So when I'm looking at a bike and a person, just because they weigh this doesn't mean that what we have won't work.

So this is the emergency services piece. All right, I got this rider. I got this bike. I got this sag number. Right now let's set that. it's somewhere in the somewhere in the ballpark they want with a textbook and then let them go right. And when they come back, where's the dust ring? Where's the cable tie? And if it's smacking where it's supposed to be, but they're technically a hundred pounds too heavy for the bike, it isn't broken.

Angus Norton (20:08.865)
don't fix it. If they come back and everything's smashed flat, then the work has to begin and see if we can make it work with what the OEM provided. And that is not Juketti and it is not Yamaha. It's going to be Kayaba or Showa. It's going to be Owens. It's going to be WP. It's going to be whatever the manufacturer's component is that was added to the bike.

And the one thing that we don't get, which is very difficult, we never know who the test rider is. We don't know how heavy they are, how fast they rode, the altitude they rode at, the roads they rode on, were they solo, were they two up, was there a load in the bags deliberately? We have zero information about that. Where somebody went and said, yep, that's good. Make 4 million of them. Thank you.

Right, right. We have no clue who have any of this testing backend information about who decided that these forks and that shock or those shocks were good enough for that bike for the bell curve of humanity it's being sold to. So I approached this as an exercise of discovery, like a seven year old. I don't approach it from the textbook and I

I have done that from the very, very beginning. I've read textbooks when I need to for more detailed background information, but the rest of it is all stealthed tool because I want to give the rider what they need. I don't want to tell the rider, these are the specs you have to learn to ride to this. is their motorcycle and needs to work for their unique needs. I think that's where I'm not going to say I set myself apart.

All I would say is it's a very unique philosophy. Yeah, well, I think it's super well articulated and there's so much to unpack around who you are as a human and the way you're wired to sort of work backwards to discover mechanisms to which I think have accumulated to, like I keep saying to you, you know, I remember watching this movie about the horse whisperer, and they'll get down and

Angus Norton (22:36.397)
whistled at a horse and the horse would magically ride with it. I've always sort of used a suspension whisperer. And I know this because I've been a customer of yours. And I want to get to a little bit about that in a moment because I think you're a guy that can literally work magic about anything that happened to be there. And my first experience with you was a tuning, a remote tuning. We did a few of them on that first generation Ducati Panigale V4, which had horrible suspension out of a shop, as you remember.

And we ended up going and replacing the inners. We did a whole bunch of stuff and we did it all remotely. You just said, go by this spring, do this, this and this after we've been through a few sessions. And I took the spring to my tech and I was always laughing. And that was just like such a great experience. It was amazing. And then think one time I called you from Thunder Hill and you said, go out and do this and take a photo and send it to me. And you said, you need to do this on your tire pressure. And I didn't realize you were a tire pressure guy as well. And a tire person.

And so you talked a lot about suspension. I'd like to talk a little bit about tires, because what I've been learning from my physics friends is Angus, a motorcycle is just a gyroscope. It wants to go straight, doesn't want to fall over. Most of the time it falls over. It's because of rider input. It doesn't want to fall over. But it seems to me that if you have two people that have the same weight on exactly the same bike,

One person might be fitter than the other and is leaning off more, is putting more break, trail breaking harder or whatever. Another person may not be. But let's talk about how tires come into that, because that's the dark art that I don't understand enough. And it's even more complicated, it seems to me. But how do you look, how do you treat tires in your work and what's your kind of balance there? So I'll drop tires into a

couple of different categories. The first one that very, very few people talk about is carcass and how the carcass is designed. And so you've probably seen some videos of me sitting on tires to demonstrate the Dunlop mutants I have on the Africa twin. I actually pulled those off the shelf and stood on them and they didn't flex at all.

Angus Norton (24:59.821)
So the carcass piece of the puzzle for me is the essential first item. Is it a hard carcass where it's rigid or is it a soft carcass where it's like a car wash sponge? Because that's going to give you the feedback for the condition and essentially surface imperfections of the road or track you're riding on. If you're right-brained, you want the soft carcass.

because it hides a lot and lets you focus and concentrate. If you're ADHD and you are super fast with your mind, you need the hard carcass tire because your brain can absorb that amount of information and feedback. So look at the individual, look at the carcass and take stock of who that person is first. And one, do they have the right carcass on the tire for them as a human?

So that's the first thing. Then the second thing is basically on that tire, there's so many people want to throw a bigger and bigger and bigger rear tire on the rear. For me, are the tires matched to the wheel and the rider ability? And within that, you're going to get your average street tire, which is a single compound. And then you're going to get a hyper sport tire, which may have two or three compounds.

with a hard middle, soft side and extremely soft edge. And so there's all that to take into consideration based on the way the rider uses the bike. Because if their ability's there, having the soft sides and the hard middle makes sense. But having hard middle, soft and extreme soft, I mean, you can use those at a track day in an A group and have a great day. But on the street, it is completely

complete overkill because you'll never get to leverage all the engineering that's provided in a tire like that. And then the last piece of the puzzle is pressure. A hard carcass tire doesn't need a ton of pressure. That's why you can run 19 in a Dunlop hot. A soft carcass tire like a SC2 Pirelli, you need 28 hot because it's very soft in the carcass.

Angus Norton (27:25.207)
So at that point, the pressure is also critical because you want the optimal contact patch to generate the appropriate amount of heat throughout the carcass from top to bottom. And if you can't get that, then the tire is going down the road, dubbing this, and on the side you get what looks like lots of mouse poo. Right, right. You know, I watched one of your videos, and I'll put some links to your videos up here because you have a ton of great videos.

Well, you really went deep on this topic. I remember because you talked about, here's what the manufacturer says, you know, the recommended. And basically what you did is you peeled back the onion because the manufacturer is just there's so many variables. So if you don't mind, I'm going to show you a tire. OK, I'm going to show you my tire. Actually, you put me on the block now. well, because you're so good at this. You know, it's funny because.

The first, I remember the first session I did with you, you actually, before you even asked to look at my suspension, you wanted to look at my tire. And, and you know, it's, know, it's so funny, actually, now, Dave, I'm going to just pause this quickly. Zoom's not letting me use Shobish fucking tire, because it's wanting me to reboot, so I won't do that. So that's okay.

We'll just I'll edit this so it's fine. It's a bummer because I wanted to show you my tire and it's a oh no I can now. Here we go. OK, so I'm going to start doing it. So I'm going show you. I'm going to show you two images, OK?

OK, so just a moment. Yeah, so this is my tire from the end of my track day two weeks ago. And so what can you tell me anything about my tires are slick? And is this the right view if I was a student of yours? Would you want this view? Would you want a more upright view? Except another view as well. All right, so there's two sides to a tire. One is the cold side and one is the hot side.

Angus Norton (29:32.455)
It doesn't necessarily mean the number of turns over the other. It means the amount of sustained acceleration and load in any given corner. So there's a real myth out there that, all these corners arise. Well, actually the hot side of the tire is the left because of this, this and this. So, the hard part is I can't use my cursor cause you're controlling the screen. So, well, what if I did, okay.

You were good. So I want you to use your cursor, go to the edge of the tire. Yep. And set it right on the edge. Right. So where you are now, those little things are what I call clusters. And a cluster is a series of unique rubber balls that are aggregating together below where your cursor is. There's a single and below that is a triple.

Now, if you were to go up to the next one, which looks like, unfortunately, a set of testicles. This one here. Yeah. All that is flustering. Now, if you go above that slowly, see all that rubber that's aggregated together, right at the edge of the tire to form like a strip of liquid rubber, but no clusters. All of that suggests that the tire pressure was too high.

because we've got lots of rubber. Now, if you go in barely. Just a tiny bit in from the edge. There you go. Yeah, you'll see the rubber goes in lines like this right next to the edge of the tire and some of them into the middle. Yeah, I do. That's all the liquid rubber. That was worn off in your acceleration zone and is now laying.

on the very edge of the tire. So this is what I call a debris field, because everything's cooling off and clumping up together. I've heard you talk about debris fields before. And so if I showed you, so I'll stop sharing this one. And I'll show you the top of the carcass, because this will be a different view.

Angus Norton (31:54.977)
And so this is the top of the carcass. All right. Go, go in one more bit. And I want the top half of the tire, not the bottom. So the, yep. And then drag it down. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So whenever you get a mounting range on the tire and that liquid rubber forms up again, your pressures too high.

If you look on the left edge of the picture, there's a mountain ridge before the edge of the tire in the upper quarter. Yeah. here. Left side. yeah. Left side on the very edge. Top of the picture. Yeah. You're on the right. Go left stop. Now that looks like a spine. That's exactly the same as it is in middle, but very small. see it. Yeah.

So whenever you get that tire pressures actually way too high. Now the other parts of the puzzle, is this a 265? it's a one, it's a, it's a one, uh, 180 60. 180 60. Okay. So for whatever reason with this tire, the middle of it's getting super hot. That can be from a pronounced lung acceleration like the ridge has.

where you really have your mow through the gears and you're going really quick. It can superheat the middle of the tire and cause all that liquid buildup. The big kicker on that is at the very bottom, you got like a dreadlock that's just sitting right or squished worm. That's down there. And just a little bit is one curve into the side of the center ridge. So that tells me again, pressure was too high and potentially. And I mean, potentially

shock was too long. So it's really not getting enough sustained load on the tire or rebounds too fast and it's staying up at its long length to assess that we'd have to go to the core holes and look for comet tails. So in your picture, when you reduce its size, do you have any core holes that's a viewable?

Angus Norton (34:16.589)
Yeah, well, there's some there's actually some on the other picture. All right. Let's use the other picture. Yeah, we'll go back. We'll go back to the other picture. And because I want to see if there's comet tails or no comet tails. See what and what you what you are doing here and what you're seeing is something that I don't see. It's like you have different eyes to me. But here's a OK. So I'll pop out here and. So.

There's that hole depth hole. And you can see that it's absolutely perfect all the way around. If there was disfigurement where half of it is raised and half of it looks like it got an ice cream scoop taken out of it. Yeah. Then that makes a comet tail. And unfortunately we don't have that available to show, but I'm doing a series every Tuesday on Instagram on my channel.

called Traction Tuesday, where I show all kinds of things. I'll put a link to that up here. So that's a sort of, yeah. In that case, that's perfect. Now, if you come out, can we see the next core hole towards the middle? Do we have another one we can look at? We can.

Or is that all we got? That's all we got. Oh, bugger. Yeah. That's shame. Yeah. But I mean, it's great just to able to demonstrate to the viewers. And the reason I kind of put you on the spot, Dave, is because the thing I learned about you straight away was your ability to see what others don't see. And then when I started watching you, even before I used your services and I was...

watching your videos and getting all these free tips. And then I just started subscribing because I know you have a subscription. Was that people would come up to you and it was literally like you were like, teach them how to walk on water, like performing miracles because they always say, I've been riding this bike for years. And like you look at it in two minutes. And so, I mean, maybe you don't even know yourself why you are able to do this because

Angus Norton (36:30.013)
You told me that a lot of this is self-taught and it's through study and it's through planning and it's through listening. But and you started to touch on what sets you apart. Other than the fact you're a good guy and people really respect you, which is a big part of it. this, have you always been this way, like very detail oriented, very almost sort of engineering ahead? Like how long is this? Have you been why this way your whole life or is it something that sort of came to you late later? You know, that's

That's a great question.

Angus Norton (37:05.153)
really wasn't that detail oriented as a kid. new homework had to be done. Everything had to be on time. If I was going to play rugby for the team had to keep even then at that point, the PE teacher was great. It you slack enough in class. don't play. but I think overall, I'd really didn't start thinking like this until

I joined the police force where you literally have to put the story together because you're going in front of a judge. You're in front of people and the information you provide has to be fair and accurate. And so I would be relentlessly. Here's the story. Well, yeah, that's probably 30 % true, but where's the rest of the story? So who else can I talk to? How do I build this story up?

How do I get all the pieces to the puzzle? So what I can present, whether it's to my Sergeant or Inspector or the judge, can I do the best job I can do with the information that I can acquire in the time I've got? So when I was with the old guys at the track, all they would talk about is pressure and this and that and compound and track temperature and

If you don't get this geometry right, you're not going to get the grip. And, and that for me was just, here's the picture, but I have no information to understand the picture. And to me, it was, if your tires aren't working and you're not getting the grip you should get, why are you racing? What you're doing is riding in a race to brag and peacock to your mates that you've got a race license and you don't. So being a competitive athlete.

right out of the gate was you either race in a race and leverage knowledge and experience around you or learn or you ride in a race. And as a competitive athlete, I'm not riding in a race. I'm not spending all this money. And so I just leveraged that background and that just led to more questions, more questions. So I was the annoying seven year old. Why? Why? Why? Why? All the seagulls.

Angus Norton (39:30.253)
It's like on email. Yeah, no, no. It's very interesting. Like I was saying earlier, the more people I meet who are at the top of their game in different parts of the sport, there's a lot of similarities, regardless of where you are. And what I'd like to get from you a little bit is you're in the business of suspension, amongst other things. And what are the type of services you offer? Because I first started working with you during COVID, even though I've been getting all your free content, which people, you should

you should charge for that stuff because it's so good, like it's gold. And so I used you over COVID. Tell me what, what you're sort of like, what, know you do remote tuning, you do physical tuning, you do track tuning. Like what, what are the services you offer? like, maybe you can walk me through that a little bit. Yeah. From the in-person stuff, there's going to be events like cycle gear, bike nights, track days, motorcycle club.

will host their own guys and bring me out to do that. And it's always education first. And that education piece is I am doing this because no matter what the level of writing I'm working with. The second piece of the puzzle is I'll do classes like the Carter's Nova School. And I'll teach them and do an hour solid class and provide people with a gateway.

and some foundation blocks of knowledge that they can take with them for their entire motorcycle life. Third thing is the videos, because if you're going to be a business that's successful, apparently you've got to replicate. And the only way to do that is video, because then somebody's got a permanent reference to be able to go back to and draw on and listen to two or three times until they can connect the dots.

Outside of that, there are classes that I do, where people want to start their own business and I'll support them, with goals, milestones, what they have to get to do to get through each stage, whether that's helping their mates with basic setups on ergonomics and suspension, whether it is wanting to start a full fledged business and get into it, or whether it's simply to get sufficient knowledge.

Angus Norton (41:53.281)
where they can start helping their own friends and in their own riding community, really make a dent in reducing the number of deaths and serious accidents by setting the bike up properly. It's all focused on in the end education, because most of my mates were dead by the time I was 23. It's very personal for you. You mentioned this, you know, you're in the business of saving lives is what you mentioned to me. Yeah, I sort of pull on that string a little bit.

without keeping up all night. Cause, it's, tell me a little bit that. get a little bit personal is so you, that's a big topic. You told me that I didn't know that was the case. your mates died or died on bikes. So that's a new one for me. So yeah. Friday night, who's last to the pub buys the beer and we're all 18 on bikes going through English country lanes.

God help you if there's a tractor in the road, you've got to go up the grass verge and you've got to somehow survive all of that. And we didn't care because like any teenager anywhere in the world, you're invincible. And if you fall off, there's just like New Zealand, there's no forgiveness. You leave the surface of the road all better off. And it was, you know, it was one of those times where

It's not going to happen to me. And yet around me, here is, here's all these lads that I would ride bikes with them one by one. They're disappearing sometimes in front of me, sometimes out somewhere on their own or with some other people. So you get to hear it third party. And it was just one of those things where I was, I knew I could ride a bike well, but I, why would I push it to the point where I'm losing control and I can't regain it?

and I'm surrounded by all these dangers. So I had basically just, as you would say in New Zealand, pull my head in a bit. Yeah, yeah. Mate, that's really cool. And there's no sort of risk stacking. My mate Rick, was talking to a professor, I recall him, we talked about risk stacking and having a planning around risk stacking and dissecting the track or the road.

Angus Norton (44:15.435)
I was similar to you. actually, I rode Vespers and Lambrettas in the 80s, you whole mod revival, right? And we used to cut back the fairings and we would race them on the Traeger 250s. And we used to, ridiculous. mean, I don't know how many Vespers you've, you've probably working major kind of Vesper as well. But, but so, so there's a saving lives piece. There's, there's an intricate depth around the, the, partnership between the compound of attire

the makeup of the human being sitting on top of that bike and the suspension that it comes with. And so those three areas without oversimplifying it are kind of where your head revolves.

Look, Dave, you're loved, mate. mean, you know that, right? I mean, you know, you've been through this last year. I know you had some health problems and I think you're a little bit surprised, whereas none of us were surprised, but you were surprised by how much people wanted to help you. Yeah, you were surprised by it. I was. So, shit, mean, mean, thousands and thousands of people.

were your support crew through your recent health crisis, right? And what did that mean to you as a human and as a motor? Because the community of motorcyclists, you're right, we do something very dangerous and there's a tightness about us because of that. would you mind sharing a bit about what you've been through the last year or so? Nope, it's not at all. And I'll get to that bit about what it meant to me.

It seems prudent to actually provide the backstory first so that what it meant has really a true meaning. My PSA score was kind of on the edge. So I went in to get a biopsy done, which means they put a tool inside you through your rectum, through your colon, and then they take 12 samples of your prostate.

Angus Norton (46:26.357)
and then they pull the tool out. Well, that hole didn't close. So I went in three days later with sepsis.

The antibiotic they gave me when I went in for the biopsy is the antibiotic they gave me when they sent me home. So four days later, I'm in a very, very bad way because it didn't do anything. So then I became my own advocate and a very educated patient, very educated. So I applied all my learning skills.

on how to take control of this situation, leverage knowledge, build relationships with doctors and nurses, and find out how I could bring myself out of this situation that absolutely could have killed me. There's no question of that. And then after that, had to eventually get the prostate removed.

That's a, that's been a whole other story in recovery because what it's, what it takes out of your body and chemistry leaves you living in a shell. You don't know. It's very disconcerting. And part of that prior to the surgery was the surgeon told me as much weight as you can lose.

That will make the surgery more successful. So I lost a third of my body weight and 80 pounds by being in permanent ketosis to hit that goal. So the recovery from that has been difficult. The humorous side of that recovery is that I was teaching at the Carter school this spring, went flying into turn one at Thunderhill, put my body in position, leaned into the handlebars and ran off the track.

Angus Norton (48:29.557)
The back track or the front track track. OK. Yeah. On the big track. Yeah. And literally ran the bike ran straight. shit. I'm 80 pounds lighter. All right. OK. Yeah. You see that. I didn't didn't change on me, change the suspension on my bike because of the weight change, because it was a coaching school. wasn't riding fast. Yeah. And so

There was there was a sudden. Realization that you're not you anymore. OK, right. You you've got to make some serious, very serious changes here. And so back to the support side of that, when I went back in for sepsis the second time at the outpouring that came in to use an English phrase.

I was literally gobsmacked because my whole life revolves around putting writers before me and being a person involved in service and saving lives. So to be on the receiving end of that much, love care support, and then, the financial campaign that Donna started for me, my partner,

I I honestly didn't know how to respond to that. Obviously, it's great immense gratitude and to be to be fair, severe shock. Because my brain doesn't work that way, I'm here to do what I can do with the time I've got to help others help others. You're about giving, not receiving, right? Always. Yeah. And it's it's a bummer that as much as we love America,

It really is the land of extremes, right? You can be the most beautiful place by minute, the most god forsaken place, the next the best health care in the world with the worst system. Right. And the fact that we're all real happy. It's so great to see you at Thunderhill last season. And so I'm glad. Thank you for letting me touch on that. I know we started a little bit late, so I'm going to steal a bit more time if that's OK. Yeah, absolutely. I'm really enjoying this. So we've talked about your where you got started.

Angus Norton (50:58.913)
how your brain thinks, your sort of your sports, your competitive, you're a listener, you're a planner, you clearly are sort of a process of elimination kind of person too as you're working to solve a problem. Now, I consider myself, when you first met me, I thought I was a shit hot street rider and I just started on the track. 30 years on the street, almost a million miles around the world of touring. So a lot of writing, three continents, blah, blah.

And like a lot of people, when I was a kid, I never listened to anyone because I thought I knew everything. But as an old guy, 53 now, I did approach the track transition with a learner's mindset. But I did turn up on a bike that was just way too big and stupid, a V4S back in Ducati, and learned very quickly it was the wrong bike and went down to a Prilia RS660, which I still ride today. And I've just gone back to a leader bike for the first time this season.

Now, I'm now on an A group, was a bit of a loving. I'm like one of the slowest in a group, but I'm making progress. So we talked a little bit about, you know, your basic setup. So you get to a point where, OK, you want more than a basic setup. And what's the difference between what a dealer might do? Nothing wrong with dealers, by the way, but you know, dealer set up your suspension off you go mate versus what what maybe an expert technique or an intermediate adjustment would be.

Um, is there a difference like or not? There's a huge difference. Um, first and foremost, the dealer can't adjust the bike. It's got to be sold as is on the showroom floor. Really? I can't touch it. Nope. Why? Because, um, at that point, the bike is to be sold to the customer and then they go and do 600 miles on it and bring it back for the first service.

So the, there is, I'm not going to say an unspoken rule because when I was the GM of a dealership, no bike that was sold left until it was perfect for the owner, whatever was needed was rolled into the finance. Again, I was the, if anybody's seen life of Brian, was Jehovah. I had to put a link to that up here. Yeah, you should. Yeah.

Angus Norton (53:29.837)
So at that point, a base setup gets in, in my humble opinion, and what he's got their own ideas. The base setup is to get as close to optimal travel as possible, which is 80 to 90 % with whatever we have geometry preload rebound damping. But most by far most important is to get the bike to rebound together and compress together. As soon as it does that.

your 70 % less energy per corner because you can relax because the backs good. If the backs, porpoising the fronts, porpoising at the same time too, you just fighting the bike, but you don't know that because you've never had the epiphany of having a bike set up for you. So the base set up, get it set to sag, get the rebound balance and compression set correctly and let them go.

Yes, there are people that should be on a racetrack, should not be allowed to ride that fast on the street, but they do. That's just the nature of our sport. So we try and get them to the track as fast as we can. At the track environment, you're accelerating harder, you're braking harder, you're doing anywhere from 140 to 170 miles an hour. stress and forces on the motorcycle are profoundly different than they are on the street.

because the street is so irregular, so different, so many conditions from farm animals, from repairs, from cracks, holes. We just, we have no idea what we're coming around the corner into, whereas the track is entirely predictable. So go faster. So at that point you put the bike under massive amounts of stress. So I will set the bike as soft as it can go.

for that person's skill level irrespective of the engine size. Skill level. Okay. So they can feel the bike work. Yeah. Because when a bike talks to you, you tend to respect it more because it's starting to do something, which is that little red flag going, oi, pay attention. and then at that point, hopefully they get come to a suspension tuner, no matter where they are, if they're fortunate enough to have one in that environment and say,

Angus Norton (55:54.005)
I'm going into the corner and the bike's doing this. Why? Instead of I'm going to master this, I'm going to I'm going to and bang. Right. Right. the bike. Yeah. Just they're just going to brute force it and just use the wrong approach. So as you get faster, I constantly want to put that bike two seconds in front of you. Easily attainable, easily achievable. And a lot of the time

I'm doing, I won't say emotional coaching, but I'm saying to riders when you come to this corner, think about this and try and execute this. If you're starting to get tight in your shoulders, then you go in too fast too soon or you're compressing something into a timeline that doesn't work. So there's a balance between the suspension adjustment and the rider doing the right thing at the right time. So there's a bit of coaching involved in that too.

But as they get faster, the bike has to support that behavior. And the worst thing is they got through a massive epiphany all of a sudden, and now the bike's behind them. And they don't realize it, and now they're fighting the bike again, but they didn't have that initial experience to say, yeah, in this long corner, I'm putting all my weight on the bar, I'm all over the handlebars, and when the corner's over, I can relax. Well, that's a problem. it is?

And it's a problem because. find yourself, so this is like the slippery slope of you become a writer coach as well. You do writer coaching as well, I know. And so this is all coming together. It's interesting. I wonder what the percentage of Ducati Panagales are written to Starbucks once a day versus that she wouldn't on the track. I'm guessing it's a lot more go to Starbucks.

You know, and I've got it. I've got a Patagonia V2 now, but I feel like I'm at a point where I'm ready to write it. But I learned a shit ton riding on a smaller bike, a 660. And so, again, I'm going to ask you few more questions. Then I want to talk a little about how people can get a hold of you. I'm going to ask you some questions that aren't my opinion. It's just me being a little bit of a bit of a dick. OK, Dave, my fuck man, my Ducati's got Skyhook suspension, Alcatel suspension. What do need you, man?

Angus Norton (58:14.829)
It's all automatic, all works out of the box, right? Of course it does. It works by the press of a button, but do you know what it's doing? And if you don't know what it's doing, why don't you know what it's doing? Because if you're going to push a button, there's going to be a good feeling and a bad feeling. So why are you living with a bad feeling? Oh, and by the way, where's the cable tie? Where's the dust ring on the shock shaft? Have you set the ergonomics up to you as a human?

Why are you trusting that that Hanagawa or that Multistrada, which has five adjustments for the forks and five for the shock versus the manual adjuster that has 30. Why are you just saying that's okay when you're not figuring out with the electronics, what feels best for you? You're just pushing a button because you can. this is touring. I'm going touring press.

Is that really the right button? Have you tried sport? Have you tried road in your touring environment to see which one's best? And the other part about the electronics is that's great. No tools needed on, on only a couple of bikes. Some, most of them have manual adjustments with the electronics, but with that electronics, how long does that four core actually work?

in the ECU. When does that fork oil die and everything the ECU is programmed to do doesn't function because the oil lost its viscosity? That's right. You showed me this. remember now you told me to go and change my fork oil. I remember writing it all down. You gave me all the numbers and you sent me an email of we've done a remote session. We did three or four remote sessions. And then you sent me this long email and say, step one.

by this fork oil step 2 order of a spring step 3 and I took it over to my check and said this is what Dave said to do and he did it all. was I forgot the fork oil so the other thing you did too which I thought was great because the Panigale was new at the time but you seem to know all about it. This is back in 2018. We went into the menu and you got me to change all the engine braking and always always elements within the setup. Which I thought was really cool too and and that bike.

Angus Norton (01:00:41.421)
was a bit of a shit show from the first model. I haven't ridden the latest ones. So my street bike right now, I got the Ninja 1000 SX, the sport touring SX. need to work with you on that. I'm going to set some time up for you on that. But I got sick of the upright. I felt like I was a human sail on the upright bikes, even though they're awesome. I didn't feel connected to the bikes. I'm an old guy. I had to go back to a sport tourer.

Like I'm a technology front, you know, be, I want to be sensitive to your time. So we talked on an electronic suspension. Can I jump back on that one last bit? Yeah, of course you can. And don't worry about time. All right, sweet. So the piece of the puzzle there, yeah, you all grew up with analog bikes. Yeah. It does what you tell it to do. So on all, all these new bikes that have this super fancy ECU, which is gold.

for everybody in many different ways, but you have to learn the box and the features for each individual asset before you can ride the bike. engine braking, let's put it on maximum. Let's put it on minimum. What does it do? How does it decelerate the bike? Is it like a two stroke or is it like an old seven, four eight, which will rack the crown jewels into the tank? Is it.

Something different in between. What does maximum do? What does minimum do? Right. We're done with engine braking. Right. What's next? Traction control. All right. Well, let's put that on maximum, go around a nice hundred mile an hour corner and just keep adding gas, adding gas till it pops and banks. Well, actually I'm slowing down. I'm not going up the hill. It's slow, physically slowing the bike down. Okay. So now let's ratchet that back and find the right setting. Right. We're done with that. Now let's do slide control.

Let's put 50 psi in the rear tire and hit the throttle. And what does it do? It steps out 10 degrees and drives forward. It steps out and drives forward. Okay. I get that. Put the tire pressure down, put that back. Right. What's next? Wheelie control. No, thank you. Not interested. It can stay on maximum next. I have to go learn all of these, brilliant options that are given to us.

Angus Norton (01:03:07.241)
And the not, not all flagship models, but certainly in the upper range price wise, once you've mastered that, then you can ride the bike. So it's, it's a very, very complicated exercise today to buy top flight motorcycles because they're all coded. And who did the coding and where did it come from? And what was the data source and what are we actually getting? And who decided that was okay.

Let alone the suspension and springs and oil and valving. Here's another component where somebody went chick produce. And it's brilliant. And it's, it can definitely have massive positive safety effects for us, but it's a double edged Cause I see 20 year olds, 22 year olds going into turn one at Thunderhill.

pinned in fourth. This is what the ECU does. This is what I paid for. It's going to do this and it does. So there becomes a dependency on something versus a learning curve to appreciate what those individual options allow to improve who we are as riders. A friend of mine's a very, very good car driver. He will only have NAS

naturally aspirated cars. New cars, he said of clumsy idiots that are posers that can't drive to save their life, but the car keeps them safe. Not true with motorcycles, of course, because we only got two wheels. But all my racing success has been on an analog bike.

because I can master that trying to master seven different options, which I went through with you using the bike control, the left bar. All right. Let's click on this and this and this. And I remember. Yeah. But the set up time for me with that, I could do four bikes by the time I've gone through the menu to get the first piece of the menu done. You mentioned the sky hook system. That would take me 30 minutes to set up one bike. Wow.

Angus Norton (01:05:23.029)
Four modes for settings per mode. Yes. And you're flicking through screen and screen and screen and back and lock and memorize. And so it's brilliant for those that don't want to use tools and just want to push buttons, but don't take it for granted. It's there to help you, but understand, really take the time to understand what it does by experiencing each one, each mode by itself.

And then if you have a helmet, helmet, luggage, two helmets, two, what does that do? Right. Is it doing anything? Cause for the, the new multi-strata, you can set your preload for each mode and you can set your suspension from, and there's five options for the front and the rear, but that's all you have. So you've got a limited menu. So how can you best deal with that? And in the.

With the new ones specifically, including the RS, if you drop the front anywhere from eight to 14 millimeters, because it's built to go off road, all of a sudden the bike becomes for a road rider, an absolutely stunning motorcycle because the shock's soft and the forks are firmer. So the bike has a natural imbalance and you correct that with geometry.

On some of the other bikes, it's the other way. The backs are brick and the fronts really soft. So you raise the front up and correct it. And it's the acquisition of that knowledge of each bike. When you approach it, that allows me to do things incredibly quickly, but it's almost 30 years of doing it. Yeah. Yeah. I know you're a fan of the multi. It's interesting because I've owned every multi since they came out literally. And Ducati sent me like a special statue thing. It's back there somewhere. Like, cause I, they knew that I bought every one.

And the other thing you taught me, which is amazing, the dealers don't tell you this, you spent $30,000 on a motorcycle, which I don't do anymore because I'm working for myself these days, so it's not as easy to do. But anyway, you also showed me that the fixed mode, which I didn't even know you could do. So I was always running in a variable mode. And they used to oh, no, you can set up your own fixed mode, which I suppose in many ways is kind of your own personal settings. And when I show other guys at the track, I'm even showing up,

Angus Norton (01:07:47.629)
What I see a day showing that you can run it in fixed mode and set it up. So it's always right for you. And that was for me, a panel that was like, Oh, wow. Didn't even know you could do that. Maybe, maybe, maybe you don't realize how much of a panacea that was for me. was like, Oh shit. Yeah. Okay. And it's that epiphany, right? The first time the brake lever adjusted properly, you're in a crisis and you, don't crash. Yeah. I'm you have a suspension adjustment and go through the first series corners and go, it's on rails.

Yeah. It's mad. So, so mate, you're such a humble guy. You're one of these people, you know, you're in business, you're in business to save lives. You love doing it, but you're also in business. So like, what's the best way for folks? I'll put all the links up here and all over the place. But I know you do remote tuning, which I've done, which is a combination of FaceTime.

on FaceTime and texting and back and forth and sending photos and pictures. And that was really cool. You do the in-person at a dealership or at a track. But I know you would also do in-person at someone's house if they're willing to pay for it, right? Like I saw some videos of you going, I think it was at Cali Moto. You went to his house and did something. A few guys like that. So do you actually still do that or is it mainly dealer, track or virtual? It's combination between street coaching.

actually going to events, writer groups, and then individuals and type space them out during the day. So, everybody's got different environments to work in summer at home. Some are not some have to go in the office two days a week. the schedules are all over the place at the moment. So I try and keep everything flexible.

If you're mechanical, email's easy because I can send you three settings to test because you're comfortable with tools. Whereas some people that are frightened of a screwdriver and hold it like that is I'm going to assist you step by step with the first series of adjustments to guide you. And then I take all the notes. And so there's an email chain of all the settings we've done, all the changes we've done to help you. And for those that want to do it themselves, you know, there's Instagram, there's Facebook.

Angus Norton (01:10:12.619)
There's YouTube and there's the website and the website has got over 2000 pieces of content between videos. It's great. Of course. And it's a lifetime's work that's up there. and that's 50 bucks for the year. Come and go as you please. And that's it. So you've got DMT racing. right. DMT Dave Moss tuning. We'll put all the links up here. You've got.

So you've got the subscription, you've got the newsletter, which I get the GMT newsletter. You do the Instagram clinics, you do the track clinics, all of that. you like, you know that I do this blog thing just for a bit of a bit of bit of fun, right? Yeah. So like, I never set it up to be like, it's not a business. just do it because I like learning and I like meeting interesting people. So like.

I'm not paying Dave for this people. This is just me and Dave having a chat. I'm really lucky to have the chat with him because, you know, he's a busy, busy guy and you're building a house right now. So you're staying in your, in your, in in your toy hauler. So I thought you were at the track for a minute then I thought, he's at the track again. You're always working. I am. You need an apprentice or something to work for you or something at the track. Tried that on four different occasions within four days.

They want out. They want the Greyhound station or the Amtrak. They just can't hack it. It's too hard. Yeah, you work hard. I see you. Well, so I'm going to put all your links and stuff up here and I bet you we're going to get a lot of questions. And if folks do want to ask you a question, do they do that for your website as well? Or is there an email? I want you to get 100,000 emails. I get a couple hundred a day. Really?

that I answer every single one of them. So based on the platform that they use the most, I answer all the questions that come through Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. If there's something specifically they need help with, then Dave at DaveMarshTuning.com is the email to use. I answer emails every day because I try and get as much done that day because otherwise it just compounds and it gets really hard.

Angus Norton (01:12:35.991)
But then some days I'm at the track, you know, it's really hard to get everything done in time. So, yeah, they do my best to help people as best I can. especially those that really want to learn more. So if they're looking to learn something, I've got a document with all the videos and sequence that I can email to them and just say, start here, crack on, or if they want to learn something about tire wear.

then I direct them to the YouTube channel and the contact patch playlist. So a little bit of investigation on that part will easily direct them. But for God's sake, if you do Google me, please put something after it like tire suspension, geometry, chassis, rebound, something. Because 30 years of work is going to pull up a ridiculous YouTube search and just leave.

John, you know why this too hard. Yeah. Well, I'm a member. I've been paying yearly for a long time. I actually got a renewal email for you the other day, actually. So I need to renew. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I need to renew. I was actually looking at my email because I was looking at the other day and I oh, shit, I haven't done this yet. But so I'll do that. yeah, hey, it's been an absolute honor to speak to you again, Dave. Definitely.

consider you a mate, especially how much you love New Zealand and you go back there every year. And what you've done for me is a fat old white old rider trying to get fast. I appreciate it. So yeah, yeah. So yeah. So we're talking about my mate, Simon Crafer, which I've got an interview on another Kiwi. But we're also talking about Aaron Slyte, who you have you've spent time with. And now he he rode the Britain motorcycle.

Right. Which is a famous New Zealand motorcycle, which we should talk about. And of course, there's, you know, McLaren was another New Zealand company. English like to say he's English. He's a Kiwi. So tell us about, tell us about the Britain man. So you've seen a few Britons. I've seen every running Britain, which was out at Christchurch at a track day when they did the celebration at Rua Puna. And I didn't get the chance to ride one.

Angus Norton (01:14:55.619)
but when I do the shiny side up tour with NZTA and ACC, Andrew Straub brought the Britain with him to every single event. And Straudy has written that bike extensively. And because we are a part of the tour educational tool that went around the country, I got to sit on it. I got to learn about it. I got to push on it. I got to feel it. I got to be very intimate on that bike without actually riding it.

I was also in Christchurch just after the earthquake when they were running in and out of the building trying to save as much of Britain as possible. Its heritage, its history, its parts, everything with the policemen looking the other way.

And they were people literally risking their lives to grab as much as they could grab about that bike to save it. So I've been incredibly fortunate to be that close to the bike and see him running in person every iteration. And the genius that built that bike that was so cruelly taken away from all of us.

I've got a few of his t-shirts. So I wear proudly the band. Yeah, he was a genius mad scientist. And you see, the thing about New Zealand is it's so far away that over time our culture has been one of well, fuck the parts are so far away. We're never going to get them certainly in Bruce McLaren's day when he started McLaren and then Burt Monroe, of course, the bus. And so 35 year old bike, the Britain, you probably you looked at the suspension thinking of like, obviously, you probably looked at it that guy, this is 35 years old.

But like, what was your initial reaction when you saw the suspension on it? Was it? So what I saw at first was the entire bike and the layout, how everything was set up, how everything was linked together. And then I would start looking at why is the exhaust routed this way? because it doesn't want to get the shock hot. Why is this place like this? Well, now the shocks out in cool air to keep the oil cool, which will make it perform better over longer races like the Daytona 200.

Angus Norton (01:17:09.685)
And why is this like this? And why is this a pull shark versus a push shark? And, and then I just started going to see how the entire bike would harmonically work together with nothing opposing kind of like Michael Stiz's engine, four cylinder engine, cutting off with one side going one way and the other side going the opposite for perfect primary balance. So I looked at it like that. And then when I got the chance to really look at it with Andrew and he gave me.

all of his input that he gave as a development rider with a bike. Then it all started to come together. Why pieces were here and pieces were there. And then Andrew was saying, well, we move this because, and this used to be over here and actually stayed there because, it became this, I'm not going to, surreal is not quite right, but it was this extraordinary experience to see something built by hand.

that was so successful with a rider that had very intimate experience about the bike. And those moments are so few and far between in life on anything that that is just something to treasure. And I don't share that much with anybody because I don't want that to come off as very arrogant because it's not meant that way at all.

but the privilege of that opportunity. and then the next year Andrew brought it again. So I had more questions for it. Yeah. Yeah. And just learning, learning, learning, listening, learning, and just really starting to appreciate how somebody could have something in their head and visualize it to become the best in the world out of a shed. New Zealand. Yeah. A rock at the bottom of the South Pacific, right?

Yeah, we're all pretty proud us Kiwis because there's not many of us. I reckon you're an honorary Kiwi at this point. Do you find it surprising? And we're getting late. But do you find it, were you surprised when you first started traveling overseas at how many people knew who you were? Because down in New Zealand, it was a fucking fan fest, man. Because I was on all the Facebook groups. Dave Boss is here. He's going to be here this week. like it was...

Angus Norton (01:19:35.819)
It was a surprise you when you first started traveling overseas to do work. it's always been, Hey, can you come over for you? No, I don't do this for free. I'm not independently wealthy. Here's what it's going to take to do it. So for New Zealand, Sam Nielsen who's out of Palmerston North, he asked and said, well, let me get a track day together then.

Let me see what we've got and come over for a week. And so I came over and yeah, people going, Oh, you're here. Well, I'm sorry, but you're actually here. And so yeah. And so I, that's what got me touring New Zealand and Australia since 2011. Then I went to Istanbul for 18 hours to teach.

because they wanted the knowledge because they wanted to start helping their own local riders who were getting hurt. So I gave them a foundation course twice, went back twice. And then on this last trip to Mugello for the Italy experience. Yeah. I was literally gobsmacked. People are tapping me. Hey, can I have a selfie? Hey, can I, I need a ski mask. Mate, you need to clone yourself. That's what you need to do because you can't be everywhere. But, uh,

Yeah, hey, it's been an absolute honor to spend time with you again, Dave. Definitely consider you a mate, especially how much you love New Zealand and you go back there every year. And what you've done for me is a fat old old rider trying to get fast. I appreciate it. I've missed you the last few times you've been to Seattle because I've been out of town. You've been in South Sound motorcycles. are all good mates of mine down there, good crew, South Sound and Tacoma.

the

Angus Norton (01:21:58.797)
this fall up and I'm you can choose from my I'm ninja 1000 SX I've got a triumph street triple and I've got a hyper motor SP okay so you mean you want me to ride one every day and set it up it's right yes thank you I scared the heart of it I actually haven't set those up yet I'm because I'm a serial motorcycle purchaser

and I can't keep up myself. And I haven't actually set them up yet, but Dave, no, I don't expect you to set them up. You're welcome to stay, no charge. I will set them up. You know I will. Dave, mate, thank you very much. I'm going to stop recording now and say goodbye to you offline a little bit. Thanks everyone for listening. See ya.

Angus Norton (01:22:54.496)
you